That is it.Originally Posted by ArmenJBX
It may not have been done on purpose, but it makes us feel excluded. And that may not be a big deal, but do not get pissed when we tell you we feel excluded, you did nothing to make us feel included.
That is it.
It may not have been done on purpose, but it makes us feel excluded. And that may not be a big deal, but do not get pissed when we tell you we feel excluded, you did nothing to make us feel included.
dammit TFC, you failed to sign single Korean player. I feel excluded.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
We are not other cities, and our Italian immigration is much more recent, and much more devoted to the sport.
Wow, you are really deep.
If we were successful I don't think anybody would care. But the thing is results go downhill and people start to prognosticate.
People just say "these guys are bums, people in my country can play better football, why don't you give them a shot?"
When I write articles, I always try to substantiate my arguments with solid evidence.
This is a gut thing.
It may not be historically precedented to sign Italian players; it may not be beneficial to Toronto FC to do so based on high price points. But it feels off.
When Italy won the World Cup in 2006, the city was painted Azzurri blue. In a way, Toronto as a city not having an Italian footballer is like Chivas USA not having a Mexican footballer. It doesn't feel right for some reason. Italians are not just a part of Toronto's history; they're a part of Toronto's soccer history. That hasn't been acknowledged by the team, it seems.
Plus, imagine Ryan Nelsen in a light blue track suit yelling "Pass to the Italians!!"
The issues as I see it, is the soccer culture in the country is UK based.
They started this team and gave the keys to Mo (Scottish) he signed mostly uk trained and based players supplemented with shit Canadian players. We went through 4 years of that crap. Then we try to think out of the box and go with a Dutch philosophy and that got scrapped for many reasons and we went back to the uk based players and mentality.
the problem is that soccer is the biggest sport in the world and they continue to look at the same country for players and the majority of them are severely overrated. TFC has not attempted to sign significant players from elsewhere (Laba being the exception).
I hate it when I see Montreal sign players who we had access to but didn't even return his call or other players from Europe who weren't uk based who would have made an impact and the team won't return calls or dismiss them. I hear this all the time from people how they blown off players. It is truly unprofessional, I hope it changes and they sign the best players available regardless of where they are from
That is funny. It is a gut thing, but every time we talk about it, I grow a little less attached to TFC, due to the general reaction, which kind of confirms my thoughts.Plus, imagine Ryan Nelsen in a light blue track suit yelling "Pass to the Italians!!"
I think every football loving immigrant population would say they are just as devoted to the game just as much as the Italians. for them, soccer is their number 1 sport too. You're going to have to come up with a better argument to why TFC should cater more to Italians. Being an Italian isn't going to entitle you to special treatment in soccer world in Toronto.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
OK - but then why don't other communities with a strong presence in this city feel the same way? I don't see the Portuguese or Greek communities feeling hard done by because TFC haven't fielded many (if any) players from those nations. They may well feel that way - but even if they do, they seem to be much less vocal about it. As you know well as much as anyone, Italian players at the top level rarely travel outside Serie A - I can only think of a few (Miccoli, and of course, Vialli and Di Matteo when they were with Chelsea, but even Vialli was at the very end of his career, along with Del Piero at Sydney). No such players came to MLS before Saputo brought the likes of Di Vaio and Nesta in. So I guess I'm asking, what Italian player would have been suitable enough for the Italian population of the GTA if so relatively few of them ply their trade on foreign shores to begin with?
+1, agreed. There are established Polish and Croatian soccer communities in Toronto as well, can't really say one is more devoted than another.
What the hell are you talking about?????? I am really not interested in what you have to say on this, because you clearly have no clue what the hell I am talking about. Nobody is asking anyone to cater to anybody. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FACTS. TFC is not an attractive team to the Italian community. End off. You are getting offended from this. We do not need special treatment from anyone. But do not expect our support.
It is not about Italian players, it is the whole thing. It just does not speak to the average Italian, at least from what I here, and now from what you see in the Italian media.
Again, I do not necessarily want anything, it is just the reality about it. TFC does not really speak to me as a follower of Italian football. Again I long followed the English game as well, so I will always have some love for TFC, but I think I am past, unless something big happens, it ever truly being my club, the way Milan is for example, or the way I had hoped it would be, losing does not help clearly.
I'm not getting offend by your views. but what I got out of you is that TFC is not attractive to Italian community because it loses a lot, seems to sign way too many British players, doesn't play good tactical game and doesn't sign Italian players that'd make it more attractive to Italian community. Did I miss something?
and if you don't like my posts, feel free to use the block button. I won't be offended.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Moderator
Fine, I'll be the one who says it-
If there is a group of people in this city who don't want to follow TFC because they feel their country of origin has been under-represented in the roster, I don't want them to be fans.
Aside from simply generating income, the most primary goals of this club - from managers to players to support staff, is to win games by almost any means. Winning games means making money. That means a GM his coaching staff are going to draft, purchase, or trade for players in a manner which best serves the overall dynamics of the team (hopefully in a positive way).
As a supporter of this club, I care more about fielding a competitive squad and possibly someday reaching this mythical land called "playoffs" than I do about making sure we have some sort of balanced quota in place for our foreign players to attract a certain amount of fans who wouldn't follow the team if we didn't.
Anyone who doesn't want to support this team because we don't have enough of their countrymen playing will garner no sympathy from me. Could Toronto FC be losing out somehow by operating in such a fashion? Sure, I bet it is. Just like all other clubs in the world that will never be able to keep everyone happy. But I'd rather take a non-nationalistic approach to roster composition here in Toronto - well, aside from trying to bring in some of the top Canadian players for purely selfish reasons.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 11-30-2013 at 02:51 AM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Hate to rain on your parade but TFC isn't exactly attractive to any community lately.
And thanks for taking the time to speak for all the Italian Canadians out there. Are you assuming these things you are saying or did you guys all do a census or something?We do not need special treatment from anyone. But do not expect our support.
You are offended, or you would not be responding. and do be honest I do not give a shit, and I am not a chicken shit to block anyone, even someone whose opinions I have little time for. And no you did not get it, its is not about losing, or about the players nationality, but it is about the brand of football, and it is not one that is attractive to the average Italian. The way that they have apparently treated several Italian players has not helped.
Bottom line TFC can do what the fuck it wants, but then do not complain when you do not get the support, or if one day BMO field is field with Impact jerseys when they come to town.
I get what you are saying - and it certainly doesn't help when the team sucks as bad as it has for so long. But I think it's a shame and a missed opportunity. It would be great if everyone who loved soccer in this city could embrace this team, at least, even when hopefully, it starts winning. I think the support would be all the better for it if everyone who loved the sport could get behind this team. But of course, no one is obligated, and that's probably an unrealistic thing to hope for anyway.
Another point to us having a club is/was the development of Canadian talent, not at the cost of our club like in the past, but hopefully through the academy. Now if I am going to take some comments on here as fact then what would the point be of developing or acquiring young Italian talent on the club level or nationally when if that player were to become good he would choose Italy over Canada, the country whom took the time, effort, and money to develop him, ala Hargreaves.
I am not speaking for the Italian community, I have made it clear is that is what I here and see. The recent media has confirmed what I have stated for some time. Why the fuck does that offend so many of you?
what? enlighten me. I've heard nothing about this. sources would also be nice
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I agree. But somewhere it has all gone sour. There is still hope, but for how much longer?
Give up already kid. I do not have time for this shit. And as I said I do not care as much as you apparently do.
if you can't back up what you say, then don't say anything at all, old man
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
TFC never had the support (as you say) of the Italian community from the start and up until the years of shit started piling on there were no problems selling the place out. Not sure who, if anyone, is asking the Italian community to support and approve of TFC? Who really cares? If the team actually started winning there would be enough people following the team and jumping on the bandwagon to make the thoughts and feelings of 'community X' irrelevant.
Yet TFC is only now considering its first British Designated Player, at the same time that it's kicking the tires of an Italian (and a couple of others).
This "TFC only looks at the UK" thing is interesting, especially when you list out the highest-paid players in the club's history. You have to go through a bunch of other nationalities just to get to the first Brit.
Shhhhh....facts don't work here.
Trane, I don't think anyone is getting offended here but it is a pretty tense subject once it's broken down. I think you make some good points as to why TFC is not attractive to the Italian community, but like others have said, TFC isn't attractive to any community. Take it from an Englishman, I'm not impressed with Ricketts, Earnshaw or even Dichio. I just want to win.
What I don't understand is why is this coming out now that we're actively courting a big name Italian DP? The reason the soccer community is pissed off seems to stem from what's gone wrong in the local youth set up and bringing in veteran Italian players is supposed to fix this? I know you didn't say that but it seems to be the end game from this protest against TFC from the local organizations.
On a side note, my favourite player in TFC history is Amando Guevara and before 2008 I don't think I could even place Honduras on a map, I sure did enjoy rooting for them in the world cup though. Either way, I hope the semi-poisonous debate doesn't turn you away from the board. You have some pretty insightful things to say from a perspective I am not all that familiar with and I enjoy reading your posts.
Last edited by MartinUtd; 11-29-2013 at 06:31 PM.
If these are really FACTS, I find it hilarious that this Italian community who feel aggrieved by the lack of Italian players at TFC would quash a deal to bring in an Italian.
Might as well stew in your own persecution complex.
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