What is the point of employing a system that none of your players can thrive within?
Is this year (and perhaps next) all about Aron Winter's education as a professional coach...?
The Winter System
What is the point of employing a system that none of your players can thrive within?
Is this year (and perhaps next) all about Aron Winter's education as a professional coach...?
Whats the point of a posting, where there's no real posting?
shit.... for a moment I thought someone was about to elaborate on what Winter's system is.
oh well.
The system is, rotate every single player you have access to through the first team. Then go to MLSE and say 'well I tried to use what I inherited and it does not work. Now you have 2 options. Option 1 go back to Klinsmann and tell him he does not know shit about evaluating new coaches. Option 2 we drop damn near every one and start from scratch with only players I have selected. It's the only way Jurgen and I can be held accountable'
What do you think? It's all I'm left with.
Disturbingly, that may not be too far from how it goes down!Originally Posted by skint
Hands up if you think we'll make the play offs before year ten...
We are the Angry Mob, we read the papers every day
We like who we like, we hate who we hate
But we're also easily swayed
Here's the system:
Winter found 4 envelopes on his desk when he arrived. The first said, after losing 3 games, open this envelope: They did, he did, the letter in the envelope said: "Blame the referees".
The second says, after losing 5 more games, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Blame the players"
(Winter is smart, he's already getting there without the envelope)
The third says, after losing an additional 5 games, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Blame the media"
The fourth says, after the season ends, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Prepare 4 envelopes"
You're welcome.
Last edited by ensco; 05-03-2011 at 05:19 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I think we can (safely) assume that the "system" is a moving target at this point. It probably starts with something like 4-3-3 but it's going to need some tweaking to make it pragmatic enough to work within a salary cap league like TFC. Also needs to account for the physicality.
But if you really wanted a theme from me so far this season it would be: Our signings have not made enough of an impact. They should really be the great equalizer when it came to rebuilding our team this year. As it stands they have not worked out that way.
There have been a few guys who have just come here and done nothing of value (Soolsma, Williams) and others who after inspired stars have yet to really contribute on a major level consistently (Martina, Stevanovic).
Ensco's post is funny, but imagining that anyone at MLSE even knows the players names now that DeRo is gone may be funnier.
System shlystem !!... Total Football a la Vinter is simply possession football in a 4-3-3 formation. Nothing magical & all it needs is players that are comfortable on the ball and off the ball moving into space to receive the frickin ball. We have players that are uncomfortable and moving into the wrong spaces. Once that is solved, MLS Cup here we come !!!
Winter's system is very similar to Mo's system. The primary focus is maintaining job security by lowering expectations and preaching patience.
Total Football used by Holland to beat Brazil in the 70s or something like that..
Wow. Threads like this bring out the most cynical.
I have a lot more hope than you guys. Why are you even following this team if it's so bad?
Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-03-2011 at 09:33 PM.
EDIT - Oldtimer deleted his RSL comment so this video makes no sense now lol
Says the person who started the cut season ticket prices thread. If you have so much faith then take a flyer that next years team will be so good your extra tickets will sell like hotcakes.
You're hilarious esco. love reading your posts.
But to be fair, it's not going to be that bad. They will get a win or two in there to foil the envelope plan.
lol
I know, you must be dying to close it.
Cause if we leave it in the hands of sycophants, it wont get any better, and we wont get another team to support instead.
Also your question is a huge fucking insult to a lot of people who spent a lot of money, time and enegy on this team only to see it passed around the coaching D-list.
"I eeeeeeeee resemble such remark!"
What is that supposed to mean? We don't close threads because of mere disagreements. Why the hate?
I guess you would have trouble with U-Sector then, their board is full of "don't stop believing." I guess they are sycophants.
I keep wondering why our board is the one that attracts people who spend their time insulting people who have at least some hope that we might be seeing a good future. We get called "sycophants" and "Leaf fans."
I think that we are following the same path as RSL did. I expect the same results. A terrible 2011, followed by making the playoffs in 2012. Do you think that we can go through this year without having a terrible result? Steve Clarke himself couldn't produce a winning team in the first year given MLS roster restrictions. I had no illusions about this year, and I don't think it reflects at all on the quality of Winter's job. The jury is still out on him.
You keep writing that we are going to be RSL, but show me the evidence that we're headed in that direction.
You could have wrote exactly the same thing about Carlos de los Cobos and the Chicago Fire last year. Or if we really want to be extreme, Ruud Gullit and the LA Galaxy.
LOL.
I've been wondering that too. So one guy with little experience succeeds and we automatically think it will work here? Especially when there are countless examples of other inexperienced guys who failed.
Winter has never coached professional players before, so essentially we have a guy learning on the job.
Last edited by menefreghista; 05-04-2011 at 08:45 AM.
[QUOTE=Oldtimer;1291299]
I keep wondering why our board is the one that attracts people who spend their time insulting people who have at least some hope that we might be seeing a good future. We get called "sycophants" and "Leaf fans."
[qoute]
You are right, if it steps over the line. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, within bounds of civility, and everyone should expect to have those beliefs questioned, within bounds of civility.
I hope your belief is justified. Not much evidence so far.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I could be wrong, but I read that as management at MLSE and TFC as being sycophants. I don't think he was calling the fans that.
I hope you're right but there are some differences between what TFC is doing and what RSL did. Yes, both coaches are first year, but it wasn't Kreis' first year in MLS and he wasn't trying to "change the culture" and bring a new vision and a new system he was just trying to build on what they had and win games.
And he was hand-picked for the job by an involved owner who really wants to win and TFC's staff was chosen by a consultant - who hasn't been heard from since.
Of course, it could work out really well. But it may take two years instead of one because Winter still needs to learn the league and the other teams, something Kreis didn't need to do.
The real following of RSL would have been if Anselmi got really involved and hand-picked Dichio to take over the team and then hired him an ex-player with a law degree as GM who could handle the negotiations and contracts.
Again, this is where MLSE's mismanagement has shone through once again.
They obviously knew the type of coach Winter wanted to be, and when he was presented to them they should have advised either Klinsmann or Winter that the talent pool of MLS might not be the best for the total football type of system.
If everyone else realized this, how could they not?
On Beach Red's point: The other difference is that there are still a lot of Mo's guys running things behind the scenes... so it may not work out. But I still have some hope, I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel.
^ I'm not ready to throw in the towel, either. But you're right, there are a lot of changes that still need to be made beyond just the players so it can take a while.
I still think by the end of this season we'll see some real improvement. If it comes down to the last game of the season for a playoff spot (and it still could, this is MLS) I don;t think the team will collapse in the final game.
At times, the club has seemed to grasp the basic fundamentals of the possession oriented system that Winter is preaching and has looked fairly impressive. At other times, the players have looked completely lost on the pitch. I think the youth, the unfamiliarity of the players on the squad, and curious roster selections (ie. Gargan, Harden, Peterson) are the primary reasons for the inconsistent performances thus far.
It could very well get worse before it gets better, but I believe it will eventually get better.
Barcelona are the 'Experts' of the Dutch 'Total' Football system, I'm not saying that TFC will be like Barcelona, but that is the system that Winter is trying to develop. I am optimistic that it will develop sooner rather than later.
Cheers to TFC the team I SUPPORT
way to early to spit out the dummy guys, we are a rowdy lot here in toronto we expect no demand instant results.the fact is we have lost that gameday feeling off fun we were so used to,there was always next game. now we look at the next game and shake our heads,as has been said lets wait till season ends to make decissions on where we are going with this team, a good run will bring back that loving feeling
After the first three seasons we wanted results. No matter how they come.
They brought in Preki and once his method wore thin and the results ran dry the masses started talking about the hatred of "anti football". We want attractive football.
So they go out and hire a guy who wants to completely overhaul the club and institute a possession based, attacking, attractive football style.
9 games in and people are back to wanting results. Nothing else matters. And the club is, and will always be a failure.
Hilarious.
I've come to the conclusion that the absolute last thing the club should ever do is listen to the supporters. Lol
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
