Tell me one thing that proves that.Originally Posted by __wowza
Tell me one thing that proves that.
Well I guess I'm nuts.
For the first time in 5 years I'm optimistic.
We have a coach that is trying to implement a brand new style...from the academy right on up.
We have a coach that doesn't take shut from his players and wants a team above all else.
Gone are the days of hoofing the ball up field for no reason.
Growing pains are to expected imo.
It's funny that people can predict doom and gloom after 5-6 games. Kreskins everywhere. Lol
Only time will tell. What should happen in the meantime?
Fire winter?
Pine for deros return?
Continue to whine about opposing players who gloat when they score?
Fuck that.
This is the first time since season 1 where I think grinning and bearing it is required.
Just my take. We will get better.
Rebuilding year - or similar notion - appears to be unique to North American sports. This, I feel, is in part due to the passive nature of the support. In particular, Toronto sports fans have come to epitomize this passive acceptance that results take time -- and we shouldn't expect too much too soon.
The owners of Toronto FC did not defer charging us full price to see a work-in-progress team for 4 seasons -- and they are still charging us full price to see another work-in-porgress. If we were being offered a discount to watch an experiment, I could understand the patience requests and would perhaps agree with their requests. However - this is not the case. Paying full price affords us with the right to demand a team that is capable and able.
Rebuilding year, or whatever you want to call it, is simply a scheme to buy time and to further pacify the consumers. Next year we will be better...
Sorry about the illegible nature of my post.
iPhone + fat thumbs = bad posts
Lol
Too much of a pain to edit
Ah, but this is a separate issue, and one in which I share your opinion. The ticket pricing structure is completely ridiculous throughout the majority of sections in the stadium, regardless of the results on the pitch.
Personally, I am willing to bare it because my seasons tickets are still a reasonable value at the current price point.
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04...e-academy-home
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/laying-down-roots
http://www.torontofc.ca/player/doneil-henry
http://www.torontofc.ca/player/nicholas-lindsay
http://www.torontofc.ca/player/keith-makubuya
http://www.torontofc.ca/player/ashtone-morgan
http://www.torontofc.ca/player/matt-stinson
http://www.eyeweekly.com/city/sports...-they-re-sorry
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/..._fc_derosario/
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/...to_fc_tickets/
do you want me to keep going?
or would you like to invalidate:
- a promised price freeze
- 4 academy graduates
- a new million $ training facility
- the clubs public apology to fans and acknowledgment of failure
- the town hall meetings
- the dero trade
- a free home opener
as worthless, meaningless gestures by a club that's no better than they were five years ago?
Our first team is weak, we are still playing some players who should not be getting a sniff at a game. Our squad is extremely weak, we have no depth. At present the squad is a real shambles, it really is a product of complete mismanagement over a course of years.
Agree.
Funny, thing is me and you were two of the biggest critics, and now we are called kool aid drinkers.
LOL
I find that ironic.
I don't know... put me down for some kool aid as well.
Winter himself set a goal of the play offs regardless of the rebuilding taking place.
It ironic as hell. But we have been calling for change, now we get it, we have to hold and see, at least for a while.
Obviously there is much work to be done, but I don't believe the outlook is as hopeless as you portray. I think there are alternatives within the current roster that have not been implemented yet that will allow for a modest improvement.
We have no basis to judge Eckersely at RB, Williams at CB, Yourassowsky as a regular starting LB, Cordon as an AM, etc.
Until Winter experiments with the lineup and finds the most effective combination of players to constitute the first team, we have no basis to reach any concrete conclusions one way or the other.
My personal opinion is that the players waiting in the wings should provide an upgrade in the weakest areas of the starting lineup.
Winter also cautioned that it would take time. In this league, a team can flounder in the first half and still qualify for the playoffs with a strong finish to the season.
fuck that, we're toronto sports fans!!
we want change to happen NOW.
we constantly want.
when we get what we want, suddenly we don't want it anymore because we have it. we're a capitalists wet dream. we can never be happy waiting for results, we get all jittery, start questioning everything and saying "we can do without this" or "we need that".
what we need to do is take the good with the bad in this club.
it's sugar coated poison. i only heard a handful of people mention our academy grads getting field time in the latter half of the season. good vibes don't generate discussion.
I look forward to pulling up this comment of yours on the day we mathematically get eliminated from the playoffs. We're front-end loaded on home games this year. That means points later in the year are going to be fewer and fewer and harder to get.
You know who will be a real threat? Sporting Kansas. They don't have a game at home until June 9, already have a road win, already have 4 points and they have two games in hand on us. THAT is a team that expect a "strong finish to the season." Not us. For us to succeed later in the year, we need to fill the huge gaps we have all over the place, from front to back. We need skill. We have very little of that.
That is because the media always dwells on the bad over and over and over.
I think people would be a lot happier if everyone decided to boycott the news.
All this ironic coming from the guy with the Stevanovic avatar.
I am not predicting that TFC makes the playoffs, I never have. I was explaining why Winter's proclomation is theoretically plausible despite the fact that he also stated that results on the pitch would take time.
I stand by my prediction that TFC will have a much stronger second half of the season, but the deficit in the standings could very well be too much to overcome at that point.
How's it ironic, exactly? Stevanovic is the best player on the team, head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of pace and technical skill. That doesn't mean anything when everyone around him is horrible and/or disinterested.
You gotta think that even if the guy's an asshole, at least some of the time when he's shaking his head at boneheaded moves by his team mates, he just might be on to something.
Stevanovic may be the most skilled player on the team but he hasn't shown to be the best player on the team. I mean his runs to nowhere, failing to use his teammates properly instead of trying to do constant stepovers, etc.
I guess we should give him time, no?
Kind of set himself up for that one, eh?
I can understand Winter having to say we are aiming for the play offs, after all he is the leader and he has to install confidence and not make out we will be weak despite the rebuilding taking place. I mean that is what a good leader does, he installs confidence in his players and he also sets standards, he lets them know what he expects. I applaud Winter for doing this but then I question his get out clause of 'it could take time'? This sends out a negative perspective to his players, it allows them to see that mistakes will be tolerated, that there is no immediate goal for players. what he has done is send a mixed message to supporters but worse still to his players, the mental aspect of any sport is important and I think Winter has made a mistake here.
Folks need to define "rebuild" a little differently.
This isn't the NHL where teams lose on purpose to go after high draft picks or sign Restricted Free Agents to be the foundation of the future.
"Rebuilding" for TFC is about establishing links to potential pools of future talent. Be that from the Academy or from Winter/Mariner's connections.
In the past, we didn't really have much of an Academy. And outside of First Wave, we didn't have much of a line on talent. It is clear that progress has been made in this regard.
I like Stevanovic.Kind of set himself up for that one, eh?
He's still not used to MLS and his team yet... but I guess the team should bench him.
He runs to nowhere because he gets no delivery. He fails to use his team mates because they repeatedly refuse to run forward or make space. He's also been prevented from shining when he gets played at forward instead of the left wing, where he thrives.
I only WISH that giving Stevanovic more time was this team's problem. It isn't. The skill level on this team is low - I think even you will agree on that - and the more likely outcome is that Stevanovic will play only as good as everyone else on the team, rather than everyone else on the team playing as good as Stevanovic.
We have a few good pieces, but we're miles and miles from complete (or even passable). We're like a deformed, unbalanced bodybuilder who only works out three or four muscles in his entire body. It's not a competitive position, to put it mildly.
Kind of set himself up for that one, eh?Oh boy. Well, good talkin' to ya. I'm done for now. See you in the "TFC-Columbus post game rant thread."
This is a very good example of the kind of progress we're talking about.
And most people in this thread are not necessarily disputing that. We are not delusional in thinking this team is a good team.
What we are saying is we are seeing glimpses of what could be. What they are trying to do; even though is has not been successful. The point is, some of us feel it's these small signs we see that show we are starting to get on course for the first time in the teams history. More time is needed to decide if it is or is not going to work. I don't think a final conclusion can be made either way.
Some of us are not ready to blow it up and start all over again for the umpteenth time.
DR... that's your assessment of him. But you'll find a ton of people who disagree with you.
I don't necessarily disagree with you but it goes to show that it's not as cut and dried as everyone says.
Results wise, Stevanovic hasn't done anything. I mean aren't goals and assists supposed to be what he does?
I approve this post and this thread. This is how I feel as well.
Some people only see negatives, some people only see positives, some people see things the way they are.
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