Big +1 on this.Originally Posted by Walnut
I've been laughing at these arguments for months.
Criticize his attitude, the goal scoring celebration, the way he's handled his contract / loan business, but his performance on the pitch has been very solid.
Let's face facts here. Very few guys on TFC are playing at a level that will allow us to win games. Even some of the lower paid guys people seem to be in love with, they are not starter level, they are at best substitutes.
Last edited by ag futbol; 01-17-2011 at 03:24 PM.
^^
I wholeheartedly agree with ag's post.
I admit I'm not a big fan of his antics off the pitch, but DeRo has been a solid contributor. That I can't deny, and never have.
+1 no issues with his efforts on the pitch
Geez, I'm kinda tired of this. I might tap out of this thread. In a cap system, it's all about asset selection. Is one player at $375k a better investment than a couple of players for that same amount?
Depends on what the marginal production of those players is.
If you're suggesting we acquire another Gargan, Labrocca and Peterson, I'd give you a decisive yes.
Last edited by TFCRegina; 01-17-2011 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Miswrote.
Pookie you can't tap out....
The goal is 100 pages!
LOL
Actually it's not abnormally cold in Toronto rigth now.
It is NORMALLY cold in Toronto right now.
The 3rd week in January is typically the coldest week in the year in this region with highs of -10 to -15 a common occurrence.
In fact, although quite cold, seeing highs of -20 is not uncommon for this time of year either.
What would be abnormal is if the highs were ranging from 0 to -5. Those would be abnormal temps for this time of year.
It's like holding a fossil and having to defend yourself against Creationists...
Solid individual contributor? Fine. Sure.
Back on his current contract? Fine.
Aging player? Yep.
Worthy of giving up the DP slot? Nope.
Leader? Nope.
Captain? Nope.
Will his goal production ever be made up if he goes? Absofuckinlutely.
What the heck are you doing? Logic has no place here!
Pookie -- it is about goals. Scoring more than you concede. If we had another player of a similar caliber to Dero, who could score an equivalent volume of goals we would be laughing -- literally. As it stands, we do not have any players who can match his scoring volume, thus we are bickering on an internet message board. He is a good player, the best this team has had. He is disillusioned, understandable so. MLSE has failed bigtime in virtually every aspect of owning and managing a soccer team -- so it should be of no surprise that they would fail at managing their star player as well.
I can think of very few bright spots from last season -- the few there were usually involved Dero scoring, as well as the firing of Mo and Preki.
^ as a team, with DeRo, we were 3rd last (I believe) in Goals For. That means what, 12 or more clubs managed to build a team that could score more than our team did with DeRo on it. These other clubs can score without him, why is it impossible to think that we'll never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever be able to play and score without him?
"As it stands, we do not have any players"... clearly we have some open roster spots that could change that equation, no? Gone are OBW, Barrett, Ibrahim, etc. Don't you think we'll get some new players?
Houston failed in managing this same player too. After awhile, it can't always be the fault of management... can it?
Last edited by Pookie; 01-17-2011 at 04:01 PM.
My take on this is yeah I was alittle pissed to say the least when I found out but which professional athlete wouldn't jump at the chance to play for a perennial Scottish contenders? Players will play upto their highest abilities. If he had the chance and turned it down, I'd be pissed that we had a captain who didn't want to at least train with higher competition.
I was upset at the way he has gone along with things. I think that Toronto media has blown this out of proportion, just like every other sports story in this town.
I didn't like his attitude during the "cheque signing incident." As a captain, it is not setting a good precedent. I understand the frustration he had. He was our best player and thinks he deserves more $$. IMHO, he does just not in the MLS. compared to other strikers, I think that he has peaked and is at the right price range. Maybe they can restructure his bonuses so that he can make more depending on performance? Would he accept it?
Overall, I won't be booing him as he has been our biggest asset on the field in the last few years but I won't be happy with him as a captain.
Not saying he is the be all and end all -- and if he left tomorrow I actually wouldn't care. Most important is building a team that can win -- with multiple scoring options. If Dero is part of that I feel it would be great, as he is a proven goal scorer. Getting rid of the chaff is great -- Barrett sucked! Having one player who can score surrounded by blind squirrels who occasionally find a nut is not the way to build a team -- and having them managed by an idiot, employed by clowns is even further from where you want to be.
I think until proven differently it will always be MLSE's fault -- pension funds are more interested in predictable and steady revenue, not taking chances to win cups. Look at the Leafs; Bankable, predictable, and always a failure.
And the $17M investment in training is..? And spending to (and in the case of MLS above) the cap is...?
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie drink Guinness
All DeRo and no logical debate make Pookie Grink Duinness
So your definition of logical debate is agreeing with you...?
DeRo is a lightning rod because he made himself one.
End of.
No cheque signing incident.
No mysterious trial overseas.
No shitstorm.
He's a big boy. He can apologize for himself when he feels like it.
We don't need people doing it for him.
A lot of you guys talk about being "reds for life" and "tfc til I die" yet you can stomach your captain, and the guy we all thought would be the saviour, thumbing his nose at his teammates, his coaches, ownership and worst, the supporters.
He may love T.O. and the supporters but he loves himself WAY more...and he's making that quite obvious.
If you're okay giving him a pass because he's our best player...fine. That's your choice.
Those of us who are not are well within our rights too. And if he hears some boos on opening day (assuming he's here) I'm sure they won't be few and far between.
DeRo....welcome to your bed. Time to lie in it.
100% agreed with bolded point.
Ha, enjoy it, Pookie, you've earned it.
The investment is a very good sign. In truth, MLSE have been reinvesting in TFC all along - just not as much and not as quickly as we'd like but I have a feeling that going forward the lack of debt will be huge.
Now, the reason I asked how this whole mess played in the media is because one fault of MLSE has been trying to please fans by rewarding favourites. And they have been consistent now in two coaching changes that the assistants stay on. Is there any danger that MLSE see DeRo as a local boy and fan favourite and will insist he be kept on the team and be kept as captain?
I will believe MLSE invested $17 million in a training facility when it happens.
You know something, I was backing DeRo until I read that tweet about it being cold in TO, what a fecking prick that DeRo is.
On another note I heard from a mate that DeRo stated the great fire of London in 1666, DeRo you make me sick!
I blame the signing of Mista on the management of TFC and also the medical team who tested his fitness. I have no idea how he managed to pass a fitness test, he must have been coughing and wheezing like crazy after 5 minutes. Someone really dropped the ball on that one.
Also with regards to DeRo, a certain Mr DeGuzman must be loving all of this. Here is a guy who makes about four times what DeRo does and he has been pretty much a flop for TFC. I know that most people will say that there is nothing we can do about him due to his contract but for me he is the biggest problem we have at TFC at present. He is a guy who is getting paid an astonishing amount of money for little return, at least DeRo is contributing to the team, I cannot really say that about DeGuzman. His contribution is so little that even management awarded the captaincy to Gargan before DeGuzman and Gargan is only on $40,000 a year compared to DeGuzman's $1.6m a year, that is mind blowing to me.
Have you missed all of the threads about de Guzman?!
Ha, ha. No i have not, I just think that DeGuz might be appreciating the heat being taken off him. I dont really expect he gives a toss about reading club 'fan' sites but if you are out there Julian I haven't forgot how little you have contributed to the club in one and a half seasons and you are still top of my hit list, way before DeRo despite his faults.
esp when many are making so much more, god people all want more heart on this team and when they get it , as from Dan...we shit on him, who are you mutts....who can live on $ 40,000 esp as a travelling pro. you have to have a home that you're away from, live on the road constantly......so we want our players to have part time jobs......unbelievable,,,,with this atitude watch Nana just say f&%k it...and then we all lose...I hope no players actually read this crap.... I don't buy tickets to watch part-timers... pay them at least decently, I wonder if all the naysayers actually have ever paid for anything?....or just watch on TV and complain.....watching Gargan at a kids benefit, where he couldn't even dream of purchasing any of the surrounding items was and is embarrassing, yet he was there all smiles and heart. And yes he was not happy about a teamate eg Mista who made how much more than him...yet always 100 %.....60,000 to 80,000....is chicken feed...
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
With all due respect, this argument becomes a very slippery slope and we have no idea if TFC is extending non-monetary commitments to Dan Gargan to give him a better standard of living.
I think we've all become jaded by the ridiculous contracts this club has doled out. People are either vastly over paid or underpaid but very few hit the mark.
Anyway, I think Gargan makes a solid backup but people are waste deep in Cool-aid romanticizing this whole thing.
Hopefully we trade him, I'm sure we could get a couple of good players that would actually want to be here.
Homophobic bullshit is just what this thread needed. Well done!
Lol. I am SO glad I tapped out of this thread last week. I'd have gone Homer a solid 5 days ago. I can't believe how this thread has swung. If everyones argument for making Dero a DP is that we're shit without him then it's going to be real funny if our rebuilding team sucks again this year (very possible, maybe even likely). But it's OK because when this team is consistently good in 2-3 years and Dero is 35 and still whining for a raise THEN he'll fit well with the team and lead us to titles.
I dunno what kind of stats or evidence has been thrown around the past 25 pages or so but heres some hard data to think about.
In 2006 Dero was making $140k a year (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showt...=dero+transfer)
in 2007 he got a raise up to $324k a year and stayed the same in 08 (http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/8_31..._info_club.pdf, http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/9_7_..._info_club.pdf)
In 2009 TFC bumped it to $425k a year (http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/sept...n__by_club.pdf)
And last year he took home $443k http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/augu...n__by_club.pdf
And none of that counts any bonuses he has written in to his contract. Based on, you know, his and the teams performance. He's due for a salary increase anyways based on how his contract is structured. If coming off his best seasons he wasn't worth DP money or a roster spot overseas, why exactly is he now? He can claim he had a gun to his head when he got that new deal with TFC, but there was no gun to his head when he took $325 000 a year from Houston, when he was in his prime and winning MLS cup mvps.
And with that, I'm out of this thread again unless it approaches 100 pages. Best of luck Pookie.
Last edited by Waggy; 01-18-2011 at 02:29 AM.
The name-calling and slurs have been addressed on both sides. There is no need for the rest of you to keep bringing it up. Stick to the topic at hand.
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