I also read an article today that said that Mariner is currently working with the MLS to re-negotiate the terms of Dero's deal. I hope, like many of you, it's not for DP money. I really don't think they would do that at this point considering the mass exodus of players and a completely new system coming into place.
The cap hit would be less if he's a DP.Originally Posted by BFin
Another option would be to use allocation $$$ to give him a raise.
I suspect they're going to go the DP option, because they have to discuss with the league FO. I think it will be a "low-end" DP contract, though.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
This. I don't get why people are so opposed to making him a DP if it makes sense for the club. If Winter/Mariner feel that they can use the 100k + (or whatever it is that would be freed up by making DeRo a DP) to better the club, then I have no problem with it...
^ That would depend on who else they could get as a DP.
I just hope this is the last time there's a public screw-up between the team and players. This whole thing could have been handled so much better by everyone involved.
Yeah I can see your point based on my post and I definitely like the analogy. The thing is I was told about him going to Europe for offseason training and that he wasn't going to leave the club over it back in August so the fact that I am hearing similar now doesn't make me think it is a "spin" thing. I am definitely not saying that he wasn't open for any offers that came knocking necessarily because I don't know that. I just think the intention was never there and the ability to spin things is the media's specialty so I don't believe everything I read.
I'll take a shot at explaining it. Financially, it provides flexibility. Talent wise, it is the most conservative route we could go.
The debate is around the way to improve the club. You've got 2 scenarios.
1) DeRo as a DP (lower cap hit) + a $100k player
OR
2) DeRo at his current contract + a DP
Option 1) provides a degree of flexibility under the cap.
From a talent standpoint, we'd be pinning our hopes on a DP core of JDG and DeRo along with a yet to be named $100k player. That seems more of the status quo with a tweak. JDG and DeRo haven't had any impact on team success to-date. We'd be counting on that $100k player to be a stand out in order to make any difference to our team performance.
Option 2) is less cap friendly.
Certainly, this route offers the most potential from a talent perspective. The current group of MLS DP's includes Beckham, Castillo, Montero, Donovan, Nkufo, Fernandez, Henry, Marquez, Saborio, Bravo, Boskovic... and sigh... JDG.
Adding a player in the middle to top end of that tier is clearly an upgrade from a talent perspective. DeRo is no where near the best we could do with that DP slot and therefore a poor choice for that tag.
I guess there is even Option 3) No DeRo = $400k cap room + a DP
Last edited by Pookie; 01-14-2011 at 09:46 AM.
I like how the TSN report links the real estate site and not the Major League Soccer site
Thanks Pookie, beat me to the punch on that one. Solid post.
I think given the Dutch philosophy, they would be more inclined to go conservative, and go for a more balanced team, than have a few "superstars."
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Maybe not the full $400, but they could dump him like they did Barrett - depends on the terms of DeRo's contract.
I am actually thinking the opposite.
Considering Mariner is talking to the MLS about it, he couldn't have done too badly for himself.
That being said, I still think it was a dick move.
Winter puts his foot down
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...os-celtic-loan
I don't agree with #1 at all and don't believe it reflects accurately on the situation. We aren't pinning our hopes on JDG and Dero plus a 100K player. We are pinning our hopes on Winter and his ability to completely rebuild this team. How can this year's team be considered status quo with a tweak when we are replacing more then half the freeking team? How is it that you are only considering the 100K difference in order to improve performance and you aren't considering how Dero and JDG may play with a completely new team?
It give us much more flexibility than that. You are assuming that the $100k is to be used on a single player. It could also be used to get us two $150k players (instead of $100k players) or one $200k player (instead of a $100k). So it definitely allows us to upgrade our talent.
This would seriously hurt our ability to field a competitive team. We would effectively have more almost a half of the cap tied up in three players. Really, if MLS wanted to, the could buy the 3rd DP slot, we would end up with the same situation and have less of a cap hit. There is no possibility of DeRo at his salary + 3 DPs, so there little problem with this option.Option 2) is less cap friendly.
Certainly, this route offers the most potential from a talent perspective. The current group of MLS DP's includes Beckham, Castillo, Montero, Donovan, Nkufo, Fernandez, Henry, Marquez, Saborio, Bravo, Boskovic... and sigh... JDG.
Adding a player in the middle to top end of that tier is clearly an upgrade from a talent perspective. DeRo is no where near the best we could do with that DP slot and therefore a poor choice for that tag.
Certainly an option, but based on our squad at the moment it would be a dicey one.I guess there is even Option 3) No DeRo = $400k cap room + a DP
Last edited by JonO; 01-14-2011 at 10:54 AM.
Good for Winter. We're going to see some good discipline on this team.
It's one thing to give DeRo a trial (which TFC did) and a fair chance at a transfer, it's another thing to have him on loan for 2 months, which accomplishes nothing (it's not like he's trying to impress Capello).
“My preference is for Dwayne to start the season with Toronto FC right from training camp. We are making a fresh start and need a strong competitive camp. Dwayne is the captain and leader and needs to be part of building a new winning culture."
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Now that's some serious spin.
"What? You're fucking my wife and now you don't want her any more? Well I say you CAN'T HAVE HER!"
Yes, and at least we know that with all the talk on here about DeRo this isn't an MLSE-Leafs thing where they've told Winter he has to keep the hometown boy on the team. There won't be any "lip synch" press conference.
The fill quote:
"Celtic inquired about the possibility of extending Dwayne's time with them. My preference is for Dwayne to start the season with Toronto FC right from training camp. We are making a fresh start and need a strong competitive camp. Dwayne is the captain and leader and needs to be part of building a new winning culture."
Whoa...where you been homey? It's been a while...
Good stuff, and I agree with Winter 100%. DeRo had his chance to earn a contract in Glasgow and TFC would have entertained a transfer fee. However, a short term loan only benefits Celtic and puts TFC's season in jeopardy in the event of an injury. Winter obviously doesn't want to risk a Beckham scenario unfolding in Toronto...
What will be really interesting will be to see if De Rosario has any reaction to this.
Effectively, Winter has drawn a line in the sand (or is it snow) and indicated the captain needs to be a part of this learning process.
If Dwayne chooses to continue to force the Celtic issue, well, I can't see how he returns to MLS as a Red.
I imagine D-Money and his people are pretty upset about this, if it's in fact true. How you keep D-Money on the team without causing a serious rift (ie the captain hates the FO) is beyond me.
I think the way this whole situation was handled from both sides has been godawful and it's just a short matter of time before D-Money leaves the club and we get a new cap'n (to which, incidentally, I give two thumbs up).
Spin nothing. As far as I know this is the first time that Winter has addressed the matter.
He won't. In football, generally, when a team isn't exercising any option to buy, they won't do it later on absent amazing circumstance (such as incredible performance level) . But given that a team like celtic has such depth, it's unlikely during the loan that the player would get the time to prove the point.
His agent wouldn't be acting realistically, absent more inside info, were he to suggest DeRo force the issue.
Seems the sticking point is a "Short term loan".
If Celtic had interest and/or the agent pursued "Longer term interest" does that change the equation?
DeRo's continued silence on this mess is deafening.
He needs to start his own 1 on 1 league.
Say what you want about Barrett, at least he gave a shit.
From his twitter/facebook
Dwayne De Rosario
Thanks to all the Celtic supporters, players & coaching staff for making my trip to Scotland pleasant & memorable. TFC has denied Celtic's interest for a short term loan so I will be returning. Wish the Celtic club & supporters all the best for 2011. Cheers!!!
^ what he said
Speaking of spin, check out the quotes coming from Mr Wheeler:
1. "Contrary to reports on MLS and team websites, a person of prominence at TFC did give De Rosario permission. TFC’s failure to acknowledge as such made De Rosario out to be a rogue player, turning his back on the club in pursuit of his own interests."
(Pookie's note: did this person of prominence have any signing authority or know how to print a word document??)
2. "TFC has let their Captain’s named be dragged through the mud by media members, many of whom have never laid a foot at BMO Field, and bloggers, who never bothered to speak to the player himself to understand both sides of the story."
(Pookie's Note: I guess they forgot to attend one of his multiple press conferences on the issue)
3. "De Rosario is a team first guy"
(Pookie's note: *Ahem* anyone have a fake air cheque on them?)
4. He came to the city to finish his career here and help take the club to new heights in the first place.
(Pookie's note: We are still waiting on that elevator)
5. "Perhaps its time for DeRo to rid himself of the circus "
(Pookie's Note: Roogsy, is he talking about you?)
Read more http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soc.../16889381.html
Last edited by Pookie; 01-14-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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