Official - Dero on trial with CELTIC

[Whoop]

What people were denying it?

The training stint served several purposes one of which was to leverage TFC for a new contract, hedge in case TFC released him or if TFC happen to be willing, allow for some time in European with a big club. Is that not obvious? I hardly think anyone denied any of these points have they? This is all just good business. In fact, aside from all the confusion over the permission thing, this is exactly what I would expect a good agent to do for ANY player.

People were initially saying that this wasn't leverage for a new contract. Why? Because doing something like this for leverage in some cases would make you look bad.

Which comes back to the whole permission thing in the first place. Why give a player permission to go overseas so said player could use that "training" stint as leverage for a new contract? That's asinine.

DeRo wasn't in the same shoes as Ljungberg, who was out of contract.

[Roogsy]

People were initially saying that this wasn't leverage for a new contract. Why? Because doing something like this for leverage in some cases would make you look bad.

Which comes back to the whole permission thing in the first place. Why give a player permission to go overseas so said player could use that "training" stint as leverage for a new contract? That's asinine.

DeRo wasn't in the same shoes as Ljungberg, who was out of contract.

What people were saying this?

As for your second question...why give player permission? Because Soccer teams aren't in the business of keeping players if they find better opportunities elsewhere not to mention there is probably something in the CBA that allows for players to look for opportunities which is why this permission issue isn't about whether DeRo should have gone to Celtic at all but rather whether or not he went through the proper channels. TFC nor any other team can deny proper exploration of opportunities for players. They can only insist that it be done within the requirements of the player contract and the CBA.

Sports teams are in the business of maximizing what they can get in return for their players, either on the pitch or in a transfer. You are acting like team's aren't aware of their player's intentions when they do these sorts of things. Maybe you personally aren't, but they certainly are. And what they do to mitigate the effects of a player leveraging interest elsewhere is simple: negotiate, loan or release.

I have to say Vic...your understanding of transfers, contracts and loans is making me a little frustrated. If we have to go to the basics of player contracts, trials and loans it will be a cheap way to hit 100 pages so I would rather not. Let me just concede that DeRo going to train at Celtic was part of an overall plan to get DeRo a better contract, either here at TFC or elsewhere, including Celtic. That is what player agents do, that's how they get paid and that is how players get paid better.

For a guy like yourself who has accused DeRo of being stupid with his initial contract with TFC, the one he was unhappy with, I would have thought you would understand that he is now being more business savvy and doing what needs to be done in order to get a contract he is more happy with.

[Whoop]

What people were saying this?

As for your second question...why give player permission? Because Soccer teams aren't in the business of keeping players if they find better opportunities elsewhere not to mention there is probably something in the CBA that allows for players to look for opportunities which is why this permission issue isn't about whether DeRo should have gone to Celtic at all but rather whether or not he went through the proper channels. TFC nor any other team can deny proper exploration of opportunities for players. They can only insist that it be done within the requirements of the player contract and the CBA.

Sports teams are in the business of maximizing what they can get in return for their players, either on the pitch or in a transfer. You are acting like team's aren't aware of their player's intentions when they do these sorts of things. Maybe you personally aren't, but they certainly are. And what they do to mitigate the effects of a player leveraging interest elsewhere is simple: negotiate, loan or release.

I have to say Vic...your understanding of transfers, contracts and loans is making me a little frustrated. If we have to go to the basics of player contracts, trials and loans it will be a cheap way to hit 100 pages so I would rather not. Let me just concede that DeRo going to train at Celtic was part of an overall plan to get DeRo a better contract, either here at TFC or elsewhere, including Celtic. That is what player agents do, that's how they get paid and that is how players get paid better.

For a guy like yourself who has accused DeRo of being stupid with his initial contract with TFC, the one he was unhappy with, I would have thought you would understand that he is now being more business savvy and doing what needs to be done in order to get a contract he is more happy with.

I agree completely.

But don't be surprised when you get a backlash from supporters for pulling these stunts.

Even when the story broke in 2009 about the contract (Wheeler interview) I had said... "first rule of thumb about contracts, don't talk about them in public."

So when he did the Wheeler interview, when he did the cheque writing celebration, when he went to Celtic, it puts all it out in the open. Even if DeRo is 10000% right, he's going to get a backlash.

And then people say "I don't understand why people are picking on DeRo."

Any rookie agent will advise his client of the same.

And the second point is that even if TFC is 10000% wrong in previous dealings with DeRo, they don't have to renegotiate a thing with DeRo at the moment. Though some will argue that TFC has some sort of "moral" duty to renegotiate with DeRo.

Hey, I like people to be moral too but I also know that a lot of times morals and business (or in this case sports) don't mix.

[Whoop]

Sports teams are in the business of maximizing what they can get in return for their players, either on the pitch or in a transfer.

But what if they want to keep him?
They might lose some return on DeRo if he sulks. But if he sulks, he'll get chewed alive by the fans.
If the team doesn't want to let him go, as they feel he is better off on their team, now the player has no power.

[Roogsy]

But what if they want to keep him?
They might lose some return on DeRo if he sulks. But if he sulks, he'll get chewed alive by the fans.
If the team doesn't want to let him go, as they feel he is better off on their team, now the player has no power.

That is a judgement call by the team. If they think bringing DeRo back in and not renegotiating his contract (therefore having an unhappy player all year long) is worth it...then by all means go right ahead. That is perfectly within their rights. Just the same he is rightfully entitled to take measures to leverage a better contract either by finding a buyer for his services at a higher price that will require TFC to answer inquiries about their player (like he has tried to do with Celtic) or by using media to his advantage and making sure everyone knows that he is unhappy. Which is what he has done and you guys have chided him for doing. That is HIS prerogative.

There is an easy solution in all of this but that ball as you rightly point out, is in TFC's court. Pay the man better and put this behind everyone or not and face another year of whatever consequences befall that decision. (ie. drama)

[Whoop]

That is a judgement call by the team. If they think bringing DeRo back in and not renegotiating his contract (therefore having an unhappy player all year long) is worth it...then by all means go right ahead. That is perfectly within their rights. Just the same he is rightfully entitled to take measures to leverage a better contract either by finding a buyer for his services at a higher price that will require TFC to answer inquiries about their player (like he has tried to do with Celtic) or by using media to his advantage and making sure everyone knows that he is unhappy. Which is what he has done and you guys have chided him for doing. That is HIS prerogative.

There is an easy solution in all of this but that ball as you rightly point out, is in TFC's court. Pay the man better and put this behind everyone or not and face another year of whatever consequences befall that decision. (ie. drama)

Yeah, but that makes him appear petulant and he (and his supporters) shouldn't be shocked when supporters respond in kind.

So on the flipside, you could argue that the ball is in DeRo's court in that he should honour the last two years of his contract and when the time comes he can then give TFC the bird and go elsewhere.

[Roogsy]

Yeah, but that makes him appear petulant and he (and his supporters) shouldn't be shocked when supporters respond in kind.

So on the flipside, you could argue that the ball is in DeRo's court in that he should honour the last two years of his contract and when the time comes he can then give TFC the bird and go elsewhere.

That still leaves TFC with the advantage, meaning it is not truly in his court. Waiting for the end of the full life of the contract is not the only nor best time to use your leverage. His agent would be a fool to take this line of attack.

As for appearing petulant...perhaps that may be the case with some. But not all. And in the end, whether he comes across as petulant or as a mother theresa, what your opinion of him is does not have any tangible benefits to him so a bit of reality here might be in order.

[jloome]

That still leaves TFC with the advantage, meaning it is not truly in his court. Waiting for the end of the full life of the contract is not the only nor best time to use your leverage. His agent would be a fool to take this line of attack.

As for appearing petulant...perhaps that may be the case with some. But not all. And in the end, whether he comes across as petulant or as a mother theresa, what your opinion of him is does not have any tangible benefits to him so a bit of reality here might be in order.

He can inject as much drama as he wants, but if it hurts the team, you know how the fan base will react. Tricked or not, he signed a contract.

[Whoop]

As for appearing petulant...perhaps that may be the case with some. But not all. And in the end, whether he comes across as petulant or as a mother theresa, what your opinion of him is does not have any tangible benefits to him so a bit of reality here might be in order.

Reality is I really don't care.
But when you wonder why you aren't beloved you have to look back at your actions.
So again, when people say "I can't understand why fans don't him more love", then you have the answer.

[Brooker]

whether he comes across as petulant or as a mother theresa, what your opinion of him is does not have any tangible benefits to him so a bit of reality here might be in order.

Sure it does. He seemed to genuinely appreciate the love he was getting from the fans before all this shit happend. He even said it ment a lot to him. And more importantly, what's he going to do after soccer for work? Wouldn't it be beneficial for him to be seen as a beloved figure when looking for a job in this sport or a selfish, money grubbing whiner? What about the parties he's always throwing that he asks people to come to? Would people be more inclined to party with a decent guy or a cunt?

Sort of. There is that cliché that people love a winner. Well we have a winner among us and we don't like him because he writes imaginary cheques. Go figure.

Yes... that is the only reason we are getting tired of him... because he writes imaginary cheques....

[Shakes McQueen]

Just the same he is rightfully entitled to take measures to leverage a better contract either by finding a buyer for his services at a higher price that will require TFC to answer inquiries about their player (like he has tried to do with Celtic)

Contracted MLS players have the right to go out and court offers from other teams, to use as leverage to force a contract re-negotiation?

In other sports leages, so much as talking to a player under contract can be cause for a grievance to be filed with the league for tampering (unless the team allows it). Is MLS different?

- Scott

[Chevy]

Contracted MLS players have the right to go out and court offers from other teams, to use as leverage to force a contract re-negotiation?

In other sports leages, so much as talking to a player under contract can be cause for a grievance to be filed with the league for tampering (unless the team allows it). Is MLS different?

- Scott

If MLS players were allowed to negotiate at will with other clubs, something tells me a lot of the $50k guys would be pulling MeRo's left and right.

[Shakes McQueen]

Contracted MLS players have the right to go out and court offers from other teams, to use as leverage to force a contract re-negotiation?

In other sports leages, so much as talking to a player under contract can be cause for a grievance to be filed with the league for tampering (unless the team allows it). Is MLS different?

- Scott

Don't quit this thread without answering my question!

- Scott

[Pookie]

Which comes back to the whole permission thing in the first place. Why give a player permission to go overseas so said player could use that "training" stint as leverage for a new contract? That's asinine.

This is why I think they actually hoped he would land a long term deal.

They had to be prepared for 2 options.

1. He'd get a long term deal on the table. In which case they would move the player. No sense him going there if they weren't prepared to sign off.

2. He'd not get the long term deal. At which point, "leverage" would move back to the club. How valuable is this asset if he can't secure longer term interest? If he isn't prepared to accept their terms, they can move on via trade and build a team without him... as they would have had to be prepared to do if option 1) ever materialized.

They were/are prepared to play without him one way another.