Not sure with our bad contracts that much can really be done in two windows unless we magically recruit great low cost players that went under the radar elsewhere. No evidence of that happening often and when it does, we usually trade that player for GAM or and old man who can't score.Originally Posted by jloome
Herdman inherited a dumpster fire (Not just our shit squad, go back and read that famous Athletic article, that was the locker room condition) and was able to make it respectable. The wheels have come off but we have players out, a bad team and an even worse squad.
We've not seen *anything* that should put his job in jeopardy. We aren't even close to thinking about that conversation. I think he's done above what I'd expect of him given what he inherited, and needs to be given a chance with something workable. Pep isn't turning this team into a winning one in half a season. Let's see how he does with an FO that wants to sign players that can help us win as the primary focus, that should be the very least.
I think we can shed eight by contract this year (maybe seven, not sure) and then we have a couple of pieces still young and with enough potential to move.
That should be more than enough wiggle room to be competitive. If he's not at the start of next season, they'll probably weigh up whether it's the tactics or the new players gelling. But I don't think his Canada rep gets him more than a year. If we reach the mid point next year and we're in trouble and uncompetitive, they'll look elsewhere. That also accounts for the fact that plenty of new presidents are going to want to do some house cleaning.
rosted and petretta could be moved after this year imo.
1 year left, could get a multi year deal elsewhere on a free, would potentially cost us a bit but not that much.
Rosted 100% needs to go.
Petretta is more useful but not at his salary. Maybe at half of what he makes.
When you look at Kevin Long and Longstaffs salaries those two in comparison are brutally bad.
Possibly. There are probably ways to get another team to eat that, particularly in the European Christmas break, as that's when teams slipping get desperate for re-inforcements and they both have Champions League experience.
Long is underpaid, even relative to his age.
Petretta looked more competent as a defensive midfielder than a wide player, and he was actually not bad in our last two games, one of the only players who could claim that.
But he still looks like he doesn't really give a toss, particularly defending the back post. Football brain being decent is okay, but the heart has to be there too, and I'm not seeing that.
Rosted has the heart, he just doesn't have the speed of read. He's always a split second late, which for a step-up defender in a speedy league is just suicide.
I think from his physique and resume they thought he was a line leader, sit back and control the box type. Really, someone should've switched him to DM years ago, as he's a wrecker in small spaces and can deliver an okay long pass. Probably too late for that now, and certainly too much time and risk for us relative to his cost.
Again, both players are testament to how poor our scouting network has been. And they're all still there; all of our "scouts" are regional part-timers who have been there for several years now. Mailula and Owusu were both allegedly scouted, as was Soteldo.
None of these "scouts" -- A very loosely defined term -- seemed to do any work on establishing mentality or reliability. It was just based on technical potential and hot streaks suggesting they'd be "better" in a lesser league like MLS.
I suggested to Bill that he had to get a better team around him, new proper scouting and rehab. But he erred on the side of "not rocking the boat" constantly, and always spoke up their "value" despite their performance. In the end, the only thing he addressed was vacant roles, by hiring Rubio. Even the soft-tissue rehab specialist wasn't a consideration until half the team went down injured again this year.
Last edited by jloome; 07-11-2024 at 12:09 PM.
Before this I though Herdman and Hernandez would have all of 2025 but seems like Pelley doesnt wait around...the team probably has to be in a playoff spot in the first half of 2025 for them to continue
Yea I truly believe this team is very mentally fragile and at least 50% of the roster is so shell shocked, that there is no return for them on TFC. They have to be moved on both for their sake and TFC's.
This team is toast until we have a huge roster turnover and some new guys come in without the PTSD of the past 2 years.
My jury is still very much out.
Yes he has strong roster restrictions and a generally poor lineup.
But I find some tactical decisions and reactions worrisome.
His admission that they slipped into the 442 on two days' notice as a tactical shift to unbalance Miami makes me wonder how much they value players knowing their role and grooving solid automatic behaviors.
I don't think starting shape is the be-all, end-all, but when our playeras are defending spaces that are less familiar because of the way we've been playing all season, it's going to have knock-on effects in their concentration and reaction times.
Equally, we didn't seem to adjust in positioning, movement or approach to the higher defensive line from Miami starting late in the first half and continuing in the second. We kept trying to build from the same positions and ignoring direct play in favor of possession, which is much harder to do in 30C heat and humidity, while the other team is pressing you.
I got why they tried that approach to start the game, because it meant we could slow the game down and hold them deep in their end. And it was made possible by them expecting us to let them counter and starting with a deep line.
But as soon as that deep line shifted to three-quarters up their half, when we were dominating, that slow-play game plan had to give way to the quick switch or balls over the top, because otherwise we have to break PAST them, in possession, from deep in our end.... in 30C heat, with our lineup.
I think they're making tactical mistakes. The lineup and general inane play isn't helping at all, but some of this is in how we're reacting and adjusting, which is generally too late and insufficient.
I don't think this is unfair, but the flipside - we were the better team away to (an admittedly weakened) Miami side for most of the first half and with a competent goalscorer we'd have been a goal or two up.
I don't think he's perfect, or without fault, but that is important context if saying he's getting his tactics wrong to be fair.
if we had a DP striker in that team yesterday we would have been out of sight by halftime.
the three goals conceded last night pretty showed a lot of whats wrong
high line
defending set pieces
forcing short pass buildup from the back
also something that comes up over and over from herdmans post game pressers is "we pressed them well until we were out of gas and at that point you start to slip up and concede opportunities and goals" ok so why are we putting the team in a position where its out of gas? why are we pressing until the wheels fall off? playing all that pressing and high line might be too much for the team currently
I conceded we looked great in the first half. The problem with this team is always the middle third of the game. Herdman keeps talking about it being a lull in energy, but I think it's a period of confusion on how to succeed, because the other team has adjusted and we're just trying to force the same tactic for too long.
By the time we adjusted later in the game to hitting the high man on the wing -- allowing it to move faster out of necessity rather than trying to suppress the tempo -- we were already out of the game.
a lot of analysis here in relation to tactical flaws is very fair (every coach will have them), while at the same time the current squad composition (minimal depth in midfield, no consistent goal scorer, poor depth most places) makes the margin for error each game so small.
i think things will be a lot better next season if they fix these obvious roster flaws. if they aren't, then serious conversations need to be had.
Yeah, I agree. And it might be argued that Herdman was tactically the most adaptable manager in Concacaf. We won a lot of matches because of it and it was plain to see.
True, doing it at the club level is a different kettle of fish but I’d be really surprised if he and his staff don’t suss it out sooner rather than later.
managed tonight very well.
still obvious limitations to the squad, but when he has most his good players available we win more than we don't.
excited to see how this team looks with an elite striker.
Two years later, Honduras stopped a training session in Toronto during World Cup qualifiers after someone spotted a drone overhead.
“I’d imagine there’s probably a lot of people in Canada that fly drones, I’m sure,” then-Canada coach John Herdman said at the time. “And when a big team like Honduras turn up I’m sure people are probably interested in what they’re doing when they come into our country. So I know for sure we won’t be heading into people’s countries too early because with drones these days, people can obviously capture footage. You’ve got to be really careful. So yeah, you got to be careful in CONCACAF. It’s a tricky place.”
Some staff and contractors were told the filming was part of their jobs and that they could lose their positions with the federation if they did not go along with the demands, one of the sources said in a series of interviews with TSN on Wednesday and Thursday.
It appears likely to come out that Herdman knew. What are the TFC implications?
What are the implications?
If it isn't restricted air space its open season. Get more drones obviously.
Lets spy some more and get teams paranoid. Stop the Canadian nicety bullshit.
FIFA has regs against spying on closed practices. This looks really, really bad on an international scale. (Like doping, I highly doubt we're the only ones who've done it. But neverethless...)
Unless FIFA or CONCACAF apply a charge/ban, nothing TFC wise.
You don't think being caught cheating, assuming TSN can back it up, might fundamentally change his employer's perspective? I suspect reputation management's heavy hand could get involved.
Hopefully this doesn't suck us into its orbit.
Given this an organization that has stayed silent about their star franchise QB being accused of sexual harassment....
I'm not saying it's right.
He should be sanctioned by the league if it comes out - based on moral behaviour.
6 month ban would be my suggestion
But it's not going to be pushed by the team
Unless he was giving orders specifically to do it, doubt this comes back om us.
Even then, it's a fairly widespread practice. We just made the mistake of getting caught.
This x1,000.
Only in Canada would we roll around in shame and commit hari-kari over something tons of teams are doing but we just happen to get caught for.
If FIFA want to seriously try to get drone spying out of the sport, this is a chance to do something big that doesn’t “cost” world football very much. Big if, I have no idea.
This may be about protecting Herdman. Maybe better for MLS and TFC to take the lead on taking action, and let FIFA move on to the next shiny object.
Also- did we do this during Copa? Marsch may be on the hot seat now too…
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
If tons of teams were doing it, that would have come out already.
Its a a BIG no no in sports to do this.
You mean other than it practically being a running joke in the football world? Come on, this is nobody’s first rodeo.
It has come out, loads of times. The Athetlic had a good article on this here - https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/565.../?redirected=1
France complained about drones in 2014, Graham Taylor was convinced Norway spied on his England team to stop them making the world cup, Biuesla admitted he spied on just about every training session of opposition teams - “We watched training sessions of all the opponents before we played them,” was his quote. Andre Villas-Boas admitted for Chelsea he would “travel to training grounds, often incognito, and look at our opponents’ mental and physical state before drawing my conclusions”. In 2018 in the Bundesliga a team was caught doing it and the manager was so not bothered he said “I’m not really angry at the analyst doing his job,” and called it 'commendable'. In 2004 in a English league play off game the ceiling broke from an opposition kit man listening in on the discussion.
And there's way way more than that.
No idea of FIFA or whoever will care, what the fall out will be, if they will make an example and it'll cause big problems for us etc - it could be like tapping up players, which literally every club does for just about every transfer in history, but occasionally there's enough evidence to punish someone. I'm also not saying I love that they did this, but this stuff is ridiculously common, the article is just anecodtes of famous cases of it coming out. Biesla could barely believe anyone was surprised, and went into ridiculous detail about the depth of spying they did - https://www.theguardian.com/football...every-opponent
Last edited by JoesphNdo; 07-26-2024 at 07:33 AM.
Still. Canada. Olympics. And a particular history. With potential political and socio implications.
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