TFC player 2024 in-season roster discussion

[Mr. Inbetween]

If he came somewhat cheap I'd give him 2 years. It's working for Miami and certainly an upgrade over Coello or Thompson. 8 goals in SerieA this season.

I would take the Jack Of Hearts any day. He is Criscito class. If he is seriously engaging MLS then it likely is Toronto or Montreal given his immediate indirect connects to those organizations and their needs. I would easily take him at HIGH TAM. Still now, he is like a Vazquez or Pozuelo with a defensive prowess. IIRC, Vazquez, 31 when he joined TFC, from Y14 to Y16 in 44 matches at Brugge had 4 goals and 19 assists and from Y15 to Y17 in 19 matches at Cruz Azul he had 1 goal and 0 assists. Pozuelo, 26 when he joined TFC, from Y18 to Y19 in 28 matches at Genk had 5 goals and 9 assists. Bonaventura from Y14 to Y20 at AC Milan in 155 matches had 30 goals and 23 assists while from Y20 to Y24 at Fiorentina in 126 matches had 20 goals and 11 assists; in Y24, at 34, he had 8 goals and 3 assists in 31 matches for Fiorentina.

[SenorDingDong]

The way I see it we are stuck with Insigne and Berna (though I think Berna is doing great) for 2 more years anyway. So why not bring in some players they can likely instantly connect with?

While simulatenously also getting some younger guys as Herdmann has done.

If we get Bonaventura he could slot into where Osorio has been playing this season and could push Oso back to midfield.

[Bushmancan]

The way I see it we are stuck with Insigne and Berna (though I think Berna is doing great) for 2 more years anyway. So why not bring in some players they can likely instantly connect with?

While simulatenously also getting some younger guys as Herdmann has done.

If we get Bonaventura he could slot into where Osorio has been playing this season and could push Oso back to midfield.

TAM only, we do need someone in the middle who can link up the wingers and stop the 30 or so 45 meter passes from side to side every game. We actually started looking interesting when we tried to go direct in the last 30 minutes. Just lacked the quality to run the channels, get open or finish. I do like Prince but he is your 70 minute guy, not your starter.....if Bonaventura meant not signing a legitimate strike, hard pass.

[Ultra & Proud]

The way I see it we are stuck with Insigne and Berna (though I think Berna is doing great) for 2 more years anyway. So why not bring in some players they can likely instantly connect with?

While simulatenously also getting some younger guys as Herdmann has done.

If we get Bonaventura he could slot into where Osorio has been playing this season and could push Oso back to midfield.

What we need to do is first ban Italy from being on our transfer list forever. Next is to admit it's a full rebuild and not sign anyone over 30. Last is to buyout Insigne and eat the pain of it while also looking to dump the excessively expensive trash we've accumulated (Rosted, Petretta, Mailula).

[SenorDingDong]

What we need to do is first ban Italy from being on our transfer list forever. Next is to admit it's a full rebuild and not sign anyone over 30. Last is to buyout Insigne and eat the pain of it while also looking to dump the excessively expensive trash we've accumulated (Rosted, Petretta, Mailula).

Considering our best player ever hailed from Italy, no way I would ban that. Berna is a gem too.

Also there's just no way Insigne gets bought out. Manning would have to personally hand in his resignation if that ever happened.

100% agree on dumping that trash you mentioned. Petretta I do find more useful but he is way too expensive. If he was on like a 200k salary maybe.

[jloome]

I would think the Insigne experiment would show the risks of such a move, including the high likelihood in this style of league -- tons of travel, not much turnover time -- of increased injury.

The player's entirely unlikely to be as motivated as a young guy who is playing for his career. Giovinco, despite scoring 15 goals on loan at Parma, was not getting regular starting time at Juventus and was considered a bit of a wash by Italian fans compared to his potential. He still had much to prove.

Guys with nothing to prove at the end of their career are not what we need right now.

[ag futbol]

I would think the Insigne experiment would show the risks of such a move, including the high likelihood in this style of league -- tons of travel, not much turnover time -- of increased injury.

The player's entirely unlikely to be as motivated as a young guy who is playing for his career. Giovinco, despite scoring 15 goals on loan at Parma, was not getting regular starting time at Juventus and was considered a bit of a wash by Italian fans compared to his potential. He still had much to prove.

Guys with nothing to prove at the end of their career are not what we need right now.

Yep, motivation: the big difference maker. These are the things that should get the focus over nationality of the player.

Giovinco wanted to be recognized for his talent and have a chance to showcase it. I’m not sure why Insigne is here, other than we paid him so much money it was tough to say no.Now, why Berna seems more motivated and effective vs. Insigne I’m not sure. Could partially be related to being shoe horned into a RB role in Italy and then being somewhat dismissed by Italian fans in certain respects. Maybe the fire to prove himself is there but it’s tough to say. Insigne by comparison doesn’t appear to have much fight. Feels a bit like an academic who was invited to a bar-room brawl. He’s contemplating too much when he just needs to start swinging.

[Ultra & Proud]

Now, why Berna seems more motivated and effective vs. Insigne I’m not sure. Could partially be related to being shoe horned into a RB role in Italy and then being somewhat dismissed by Italian fans in certain respects. Maybe the fire to prove himself is there but it’s tough to say.

I think some people have professional pride and some either don't or their egos get in the way. Berna got over his ego last year during his and our mutual disgraces and is trying to salvage his reputation by competing and doing real, hard work for the team.

Insigne still has the ego and he has yet to accept that MLS is beyond him in terms of athleticism and physicality so he won't switch what clearly doesn't work.

[jloome]

I think some people have professional pride and some either don't or their egos get in the way. Berna got over his ego last year during his and our mutual disgraces and is trying to salvage his reputation by competing and doing real, hard work for the team.

Insigne still has the ego and he has yet to accept that MLS is beyond him in terms of athleticism and physicality so he won't switch what clearly doesn't work.

Bernadeschi is four years younger. He has a career, still, and might have one at a bigger, better club if he doesn't fuck this season up. This is probably as much about his marketability as his pride.

[ag futbol]

I think some people have professional pride and some either don't or their egos get in the way. Berna got over his ego last year during his and our mutual disgraces and is trying to salvage his reputation by competing and doing real, hard work for the team.

There was certainly some ego involved in his actions there.

But… I think his point in raising a stink seemed to be Bob was a shit manager and the team was going nowhere with him in charge. Fair game, and gutsy for anyone to raise given the potential consequences.

[SenorDingDong]

Shaffelburg on the dark times at TFC. Doesn't call out Bob directly but he was in charge...
https://www.reddit.com/r/tfc/comment...at_toronto_fc/

[GMoneyTalks]

TAM only, we do need someone in the middle who can link up the wingers and stop the 30 or so 45 meter passes from side to side every game. We actually started looking interesting when we tried to go direct in the last 30 minutes. Just lacked the quality to run the channels, get open or finish. I do like Prince but he is your 70 minute guy, not your starter.....if Bonaventura meant not signing a legitimate strike, hard pass.

agreed. I think Jason & John want to go with 2 DP's so they can get the $2mil GAM + 4 U22's. If they can get Mailula transferred/mutual term'd they now have 4 U22 spots to pick up high quality players. Gomis has showed you don't need to waste U22 slots on the backline. These slots could be used at the front for strikers or mids. Guys that don't need time to develop into MLS players.

The big question is will MLSE permit Jason & John to use these cap levers (U22's + buyouts because I think we have the cap space to add a mid & CB) now to bring guys in or do we need to move an Italian first to open up budget space?

I can see a Bonaventura coming here max TAM for the duration of the other Italian contracts (end of 2026 & maybe even extend Insigne to end of season with a club option to spread his contract out a little?) but it can't be the only move.

I'm pretty convinced both Mailula & Rosted are gone this window. Only reason Mailula's not gone yet is most likely roster compliance. TFC can't bring guys in yet so they can't ship anyone out yet until they add another name to the senior roster.

[jloome]

agreed. I think Jason & John want to go with 2 DP's so they can get the $2mil GAM + 4 U22's. If they can get Mailula transferred/mutual term'd they now have 4 U22 spots to pick up high quality players. Gomis has showed you don't need to waste U22 slots on the backline. These slots could be used at the front for strikers or mids. Guys that don't need time to develop into MLS players.

The big question is will MLSE permit Jason & John to use these cap levers (U22's + buyouts because I think we have the cap space to add a mid & CB) now to bring guys in or do we need to move an Italian first to open up budget space?

I can see a Bonaventura coming here max TAM for the duration of the other Italian contracts (end of 2026 & maybe even extend Insigne to end of season with a club option to spread his contract out a little?) but it can't be the only move.

I'm pretty convinced both Mailula & Rosted are gone this window. Only reason Mailula's not gone yet is most likely roster compliance. TFC can't bring guys in yet so they can't ship anyone out yet until they add another name to the senior roster.

The problem with moving both the Italians (or an Italian, anyway) and Mailula is contract terms.

Mailula's on until 2028, and the only clubs interested are African, which means they won't be able to come close to his contracted wages. So we'd have to buy out most of a four-year-deal at a cost of over $1M.

The Italian are just unaffordable relative to production level. Fede, maybe, would get interest from a better league like Turkey or Portugal, or a lower-level Serie A side, based on how he's played this season. But he's our best player right now, and producing DP-level numbers, if not $6M per season worth.

Insigne's going nowhere.

If we move Mailula, it will likely be a loan, hopefully a loan-to-buy, and we'll be picking up most of the wage and therefore not getting much relief.

[ag futbol]

The problem with moving both the Italians (or an Italian, anyway) and Mailula is contract terms.

Mailula's on until 2028, and the only clubs interested are African, which means they won't be able to come close to his contracted wages. So we'd have to buy out most of a four-year-deal at a cost of over $1M.

The Italian are just unaffordable relative to production level. Fede, maybe, would get interest from a better league like Turkey or Portugal, or a lower-level Serie A side, based on how he's played this season. But he's our best player right now, and producing DP-level numbers, if not $6M per season worth.

Insigne's going nowhere.

If we move Mailula, it will likely be a loan, hopefully a loan-to-buy, and we'll be picking up most of the wage and therefore not getting much relief.

If ever there were a reason to fix the academy and fix our local scouting network, this would be it. We are painted into a very tough spot.

[Amir.]

Canada advances to the semis so Laryea and Osorio will miss the matches vs Forge and Philly

[MikeForbes]

Canada advances to the semis so Laryea and Osorio will miss the matches vs Forge and Philly

I'll take the trade off.

And for anyone who watched the game, that LW for Venezuela looks like a prime DP signing! 😉

[los sonadores]

Man oh man, i know there has been a few dozen ‘how crazy was it to give away Shaf’ posts here but it was impossible not think that again. Lovely first goal tonight for Canada.

[jloome]

The Venezuelan press called him a "demon" who has destroyed every fullback he's faced and "the revelation of the tournament."

He'll probably go to Europe for a few million now.

[Bushmancan]

What we need to do is first ban Italy from being on our transfer list forever. Next is to admit it's a full rebuild and not sign anyone over 30. Last is to buyout Insigne and eat the pain of it while also looking to dump the excessively expensive trash we've accumulated (Rosted, Petretta, Mailula).

The only thing you missed was to #firemanning and not let him be involved in the rebuild

[Bushmancan]

I'll take the trade off.

And for anyone who watched the game, that LW for Venezuela looks like a prime DP signing! 

That was really funny…. (He actually played pretty well). Maybe we could get Canada’s LW as well… and we could move Insigne to the middle (that is the only spot for him now)

[OgtheDim]

The 2022 rebuild was about 2024 being the glory year.

Obvs not


In theory the 2024 rebuild is about 2026 with the expectation of playoffs this year being the base and then being built upon. Looking at the contracts with all the baggage held onto through 2025 - I suspect 2027 is a more realistic target

With some additions, this squad can get into the playoffs this season - but its going to take some serious changes in midfield & defence to get that done and some of Herdman's current favourites are not this year solutions.

[SenorDingDong]

I think with some solid moves we will be decently competitive next year. Almost were this year but injuries, international abscesses and likely PTSD from last year really impacting this team.

Anyway notice where Osorio is playing for CANMT? 4-2-3-1 deep lying mid with Eustaquio. Looks much better there.

[Amir.]

The 2022 rebuild was about 2024 being the glory year.

Obvs not


In theory the 2024 rebuild is about 2026 with the expectation of playoffs this year being the base and then being built upon. Looking at the contracts with all the baggage held onto through 2025 - I suspect 2027 is a more realistic target

With some additions, this squad can get into the playoffs this season - but its going to take some serious changes in midfield & defence to get that done and some of Herdman's current favourites are not this year solutions.

there will never be a glory year in mls with insigne and bernardeschi as dps...2027 is indeed the earliest with 2028 being more realistic...if herdman is there or not at the point is another story

and about playoffs this year...the team is 8th but thats an illusion as all the teams around have one or more games in hand...with the same number of games we would be 11th or 12th...6 wins needed in the last 12 games of the season where is the team gonna find that when the team has 7 wins in the first 22 games?? very unlikely

[OgtheDim]

I get the "I don't like Insigne" thing.

I am struggling to understand why Berne is a problem as a DP. The guys an allstar because he deserved it.

[OgtheDim]

Compare and contrast Ramirez from Columbus & Owusu

[SenorDingDong]

Owusu is probably gone. Hard to imagine the team renewing his contract after this latest run.

I would honestly ditch most players on this team. Some are too shell shocked. Rosted especially.

[Oldtimer]

Man oh man, i know there has been a few dozen ‘how crazy was it to give away Shaf’ posts here but it was impossible not think that again. Lovely first goal tonight for Canada.

Shaffleburg almost quit the game because of how he was being treated by the then coaching staff at the time. Keeping him was not an option in reality.

Having had a string of terrible coaches is a Manning discussion. I think we have a good enough coach now, but we don't need Manning interfering with transfers.

[JoesphNdo]

Shaffleburg almost quit the game because of how he was being treated by the then coaching staff at the time. Keeping him was not an option in reality.

Having had a string of terrible coaches is a Manning discussion. I think we have a good enough coach now, but we don't need Manning interfering with transfers.

I'd assume any notion of keeping Shaffleburg also assumes not treating him like shit, freezing him out and not talking to him for who knows what reason as an absolute given

[reggie]

Owusu is probably gone. Hard to imagine the team renewing his contract after this latest run.

I would honestly ditch most players on this team. Some are too shell shocked. Rosted especially.

watching prince makes me think how good we had it whwn we had mullinlo

[leedsandTFC]

there will be a ton of cap space and roster spots open next year.

11 out of contract, and guys like petretta/ rosted only have 1 more year (easier to move).

that plus not paying ayo + diomande+ bradley anymore will open up potentially 5 mill in gam/ tam...

i would not be shocked if insigne's contract decreased next year a bunch. often front loaded, and that would explain why there is money for a DP next season.

big offseason ahead (and summer window).