TFC Humbled Yet TFC Academy Saves The Day
http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/20...saves-the-day/
My usual TFC post game video blog is hijacked by the TFC Academy, who end up giving the senior squad a lesson in pride and effort. Exclusive video from Lamport Stadium.
I believe it was a 5 year plan from the start. So I take it we have to wait another 5 to get this ship right. 10 years to build a team, by than no one will really care. It is ashame that MLSE couldn't and I believe cannot get this right.
Last edited by REDPATCHGRL74; 05-29-2011 at 09:19 PM.
Leaf fans are working on the tenth five year plan, mlse plans a big party and will design a new league trophy to commemorate the 50 year mark.
Well you seem to be conveniently forgetting the two best players we've had are 'Mo's players'.Originally Posted by tiberius
As it stands now, IMO, the only good/consistent/dependable player we've acquired has been courtesy of Mariner, but sounds like it was a cold call via the player's agent.
The summer window will give a clear indication though of what's in store so I'm not losing it until then :P
I bet DeRo is very happy to be out of this fucking gong show!
Makes my head hurt to think I have actually paid to watch this...
Riiiiight...an expectation of not getting smoked at home by 4 goals to a team 14 months into it's existance is expecting a miracle.
When are we going to stop blaming Mo? The day the LAST Mo player leaves the team? Because this team as it's currently setup is now mostly Winter/Mariner selections. How Mo and his ineptitude has anything to do with our current predicament is a headscratcher.
Nobody is asking the hard questions.
Does 4-3-3 work in MLS?
Can you teach players that have never been developed under the "Dutch" system to excel in that system after they turn pro?
Does Winter have the ability to motivate?
Can Winter excel strategically? Or is he a "by the book" manager that cannot adapt tactically when confronted with a compotent tactician?
Except for the first question, none of these issues are something that need multiple months to answer. And in my opinion, even the first question might find some soccer analysts already drawing conclusions.
How people pull "2 years" out of their ass is anyone's guess. What will happen in 2 years that can't happen in a few months? Stop giving TFC generous timelines and hold them accountable for once. Because we didn't do so at the beginning is exactly how we got into trouble in the first place.
Last edited by Roogsy; 05-29-2011 at 11:06 PM.
For me, it will be October 23, 2011 - the day after the last match of the season. This increasingly becomes Winter & Mariner's problem, but I'm giving them a pass for the season unless they do something obviously boneheaded (I'll admit, the Nana debacle is starting to take root). A lot of people said this is a rebuilding year and there are many lows during a rebuild.
But seriously, that question is actually a pretty good idea for a poll.
Oh man you and your obsession with polls.
Wait...that sounds dirty.
This club can't afford patience anymore. The fan base is dwindling as people lose faith in MLSE to turn this franchise around.
And its not only the casual fanbase that's suffering, the supporter group numbers are decreasing as well.
I forget where he posted it, but Cashcleaner had a nice rant on the fallacy of 'rebuilding' in MLS. This isn't the classic North American sport but people are treating it that way.
Of about 20 people outside of RPB that I knew bought TFC season tickets in the first year, none are left.
Among RPB I am aware of specific instances of people who are dropping out of supporting TFC.
Say what you want about their support, you can't blame people when they are taken advantage of in this way. MLSE is well on their way to killing the goose that laid the golden egg. This was such an easy money-making machine dropped on their laps with no effort at all they could not have done a worst job at ruining it completely.
Patience? If we keep being patient like this, we'll be left with a team that can't fill half the stadium and is left with no atmosphere among supporters. The wrong choice by MLSE was deciding to take the scenic route to winning back fans.
Its true...
Chicago wins the cup in their 1st season...
Seattle competitive in their 2nd season, Philly competitive in their 2nd season etc etc...
This isn't the NHL where an expansion team is expected to be garbage for at least 3-seasons...
MLSE have an almost unlimited amount of money in MLS terms. There is a salary cap in place yes - but there are 3-exceptions to that rule (three DP slots). If they really, truly, wanted to turn this around on a dime, they could spend absolutely stupid money on three players (dumping our useless DP - who I'd cut even if he wasn't a DP) and bring in three big guns - then use those three players to attract others under the cap...
Would this be the answer to long term success? Maybe, maybe/probably not - but damn, if they don't do something soon - things could go even further downhill fast...
The academy, the training centre, the proper turf (although its in shit condition right now)they are all EXCELLENT investments in the future of the club - but it might be time for a bandaid for the present...
Fair or not, TFC is lumped in with 44-years of Leafs losing, and 15-years of Raptors losing. You think MLSE, you think LOSERS in the game, WINNERS in the bank...
As a fan/supporter we usually all have opinions on what we should do, would do, could do - right now, I have no idea what TFC could/should do right now
Carts...
^ Wasn't Seattle competitive in their first season? Didn't they make playoffs?
This is embarrassing and to be honest, Winter is out of his depth. The line up he put out was underwhelming and very slow.
Ive been saying since Winter was hired he should be expected to win now, but the prevalent view was to give him time. Well now people are now coming around to that this isnt normal N.A. sports, that its MLS and you can become good quickly.
The players brought in by Winter and Co are not up to part nor does he appear able to motivate a side lacking in talent. Eckersley is the only MLS starting talent. Plata is developing like Tchani, but the team is slow, lacks heart and technical ability.
The best player game in and out is a Mo Johnston player and thats Frei. Winter had opportunity to bring in talent and go for it and he failed.
This team is brutal and on par with my stated expectations of horrible and it makes me very displeased that I was right. Since Winter came in I said inexperience in MLS wasn't a good thing and being bedazzled by his Dutch pedigree was obtuse. I wish I had the patience to go back and find out all those people who called me out so I could say I told you so.
There is no need or room for us to be patient. We could quite possibly be the team that signs the most usless DP and hires the most overmatched coach in MLS history.
It is time for MLS to cut concession and ticket prices if by the end of the season if the first 1/3rd of the season plays out in the final 2/3
Frei - 3.5 - Looked unsure, tired and raw. Gave the ball away multiple times, including a back breaking one on the fourth goal.
Eckersley -4 - Could become a top MLS RB, but not an allstar. Showed moments of ordinary and effort. Not a full 90 we are use to seeing, but the only member and bright spot of the backline that did not put out an embarassing match.
Williams - 2.5 - Slow footed defender appeared lost without someone to command the backline.
Harden - 2 - Paired up with another slow defender, was out of his depth and left out to dry without a holding midfielder to disrupt any attacks through the middle. Simply too slow to close down and lacked positionining to mark tight.
Gargan - 1 - After this outing should spend a spell , if not 2011 on the bench. Like Harden, too slow and out of position to be effective. Hardwork alone cannot beat hard work and talent. A guy you cheer for, but Gargan is no Rocky and is not an MLS player.
Tchani - 3 - For a big man he was absent, pushed off the ball, gave it away and did nothing to assist a beleagued backline.
JDG - 1 - Worst performance as a Red. Was not dialed in and after too many efforts where your best player is one of your worst it is time to cut losses. For your best player to play as he did is simply unacceptable and if de Guzman doesn't begin to realize he is embarassing himself, his legacy in TO and warrants a benching if he was not heading to the Gold Cup.
Yourassowsky - 2.5 - Not an attacking midfielder, not in MLS, not in this lifetime.
Soolsma - 3 - Could not create or finish. Trotting him out as anything other than a sub shows the lack of talent wide TFC has and ever has had. Far too often his crosses reached Plata and not a more effective target.
Plata - 3 - Developing player being asked to do too much, did not again. When he doesn't have pace to beat a player, lacks technical ability to beat.
Santos - 4.5 - Put away two goals. Two flashes of brilliance not replicated enough. Dull for the other 88 minutes.
Coach Winter - . 5 - Put out a slow lineup, is overmatched tactically, appears unable to motivate.
This is where I stopped reading (and taking you seriously).
I'll make the connection for you, then:
-Barrett's salary is quite likely being partially covered by us
-JDG's contract is still on the books
-The two main ones are already mentioned, but I think Jake Pete is also on a hefty little salary.. when you consider what his contributions have been and there might be one or two others like him, that I've not mentioned
** * **
What the both of you fail to take into account is that NY will always have a better ring to it, for players making a decision to play in the MLS. Further, whilst they were bottom of the standings when Backe arrived, I think that was more down to underachieving; too many players not performing to their potential or close enough to it.
Backe still had to keep Angel in the line up and a few others that, perhaps, he'd rather do without. Similarly, Winter has had to do the same with JDG and others.. since starting completely from scratch is never an option.
The difference being that many people wanted Angel to come over here, when NY were shopping him around.. eventually ending up on the Galaxy roster and maintaining his DP status (speaks to his worth) -- not sure there would be any teams feeling the same way if we had put JDG out on the trade block.
We have seen flashes of brilliance from the players that he's brought in.. but, like most teams having many new faces around, they are lacking in consistency. What I've seen from these players is enough for me to feel like, after enough time bedding in, we will have more technical ability and speed than the previous roster and results to follow.
All this from what can only be viewed as the BODIES available for him to bring in, on the quick.
Let's allow for, at least, one batch of transfer window signings, to compliment what Winter has already started, before we scrutinize his judgement of quality in players.. when the full context will show that we, quite simply, needed to make up numbers, prior to the start of the season.
Moderator
If Winter can simply bolster our attack after the departure of DeRo, and reform our backline (by which I mean replace at least Gargan and Harden), I think the team will look a lot better.
I don't think it's really debatable that Mo's leftovers are clearly the weakest links left on this roster. Winter will have to work with that to an extent (as all new coaches do), but I fully expect most of our backline to be replaced, for a start.
Although we are inconsistent as a team, I'm encouraged that at least most of his guys clearly make the case that they belong here - Yourass, Plata, Gordon, Ecks, etc. Some, like Tchani, are going to continue learning, but they certainly have potential.
- Scott
Last edited by Shakes McQueen; 05-30-2011 at 06:44 AM.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
The transfer window will be busy guys... we will be back !!
Barrett is only making around $200,000. So even if we are covering half his salary we still should have cap space. And thanks to the great work of BgNewf it appears we have about +/-$600,000 in cap space.
I wonder what we can actually do in the summer transfer window. We have already used all 6 of our Discovery signings. Plus when the window opens we will have played 21 of our 34 league games.
Moderator
It's clear Winter is sitting on some cap room, and it's clear he isn't happy with the team - it will be intriguing to see what he does in the transfer window. You'd have to assume that management have been looking at some potential targets for a while.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Intriguing is the word. It's a total mystery.
Winter has never acquired players in his life. Mariner really hasn't either.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Moderator
I presume Mariner probably had some level of input into signings made in New England, but yes, Winter is a blank slate.
He has made a few shrewd, inexpensive pickups thus far though, so I'm retaining some optimism that he can make a couple of more good moves in the window.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Good to hear. Meanwhile, based on likelihood of making the playoffs calculation (which normalizes out home games and number of games played)....after Saturday, and the Whitecaps draw against NY, we're now dead last, 18th out of 18...
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS.html
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Ill start by saying you're view is 100% wrong, so stop reading now because you will not agree because you obviously care to know little.
He had an opportunity to bring in talent last transfer window, thats what the window is for and thats what he's being criticized for. Your counterpoints do not make up for that his signings have largely been underwhelming.
After Winters early praise for JDG, playing peterson as an LB or attacking mid and the fact it was his choice to ship Barrett out for oft injured Gordon those players are his responsibilities now, performing or not, large contracts or not. He made those choices, nobody else.
One flash of brilliance from players such as Martina and Soolsma do not make a good transfer, Williams is average or less depending on the style of attack, while Tchani and Plata are not ready to be starters, they cannot put out one quality effort every third or fourth match and be considered starting quality. Add to that the fact Ive scored as many goals as Stevanovich, the guys brought in are very underwhelming. The only player Winter brought in of any starting quality has been Eckersley and he is gone in August I believe.
Why is it that Philly can turn it around after one season? Why not TFC? Did you see the coaching clinic Nowak put on against Winter? Seattle in one season can become good, did Sig Schmid get lucky or was it talent? What about Kinnear in Houston beginning to turn that around in once season? How did DC suddenly become good after last years dismal campaign? Lets not mention LA or NY cause there are multiple examples. I could argue Vancouver is a much stronger side than TFC based on the 2.5 games played against them.
As Ive said ad nauseum, we can still make the playoffs, but Winters eye for talent must drastically improve or this will be a lost season before July ends. His last transfer window acquisitions have not really panned out after too many embarrassing or incomplete results. To say there is much positive about two prospects and a loan signing would ignore the fact that this team is over matched in almost every game it has played. We've done that, four years previous to this one. Are you really falling for it again?
PS we also have the worst goal differential in the league. I guess thats not Winters fault either.
Yes, this sounds right. And let's remember, this is MLS, you don't need a perfect roster to win - remember when Marvel Wynn went to Colorado so many here talked about what a liability he'd be for them and there he was winning the Cup. The key to MLS is covering the vulnerable parts of the roster so maybe it will only take a couple of additions to do that here.
No its not really, he had last transfer window. But hey, lets give him a mulligan. He's dutch.
18th, 15th... does it really matter?
Unless folks had expectations of playoffs then the standings are really moot. This season becomes an exercise in investment, evaluating players and clearing the dressing room of all that baggage, infighting, and "entitlement" we've heard so much about from multiple sources.
Next year, the expectations should indeed be about playoffs as turning an MLS team around doesn't take a 5 year plan provided you have stability and a vision.
It gets hard but you just have to dismiss some of those irrational views. One fellow expects a draw vs Vancouver one day then hammers the team for delivering on the draw but not "dominating". Some folks just like to complain.
Last edited by Pookie; 05-30-2011 at 07:13 AM.
really? christ, I remember when I first heard about this rule, and I was like "what team would be shit enough and have this much turnover to require 6 of these things a year in addition to all the other ways you can acquire players in this league?"
guess i can now answer me own question whoop whoop
So, why is it that you aren't prepared to give Winter 1 season... after which he could turn it around?
It's all a matter of perspective. Winter didn't have 4 previous seasons. He didn't even have a year. He literally had weeks after getting the keys to prepare for this campaign.
Yeah, we have more history than Winter does and yes it gets hard to stomach but rationally speaking, we are essentially in the first year of an expansion ride.
If we are in 18th place at this point in time next season, your question rockets up on the validity scale and Winter is indeed accountable.
EXACTLY WHO IS IT THAT DOESN'T WANT TO GIVE WINTER A SEASON!!! Honestly I'm sick and tired of reading this crap on the board, any criticism of Winter is automatically assumed to equate to wanting him sacked.
Stability and a vision. Of course, the risk is that it has to be the right vision, one that can be implemented by an MLS team and one that will be able to win against other MLS teams.
So, yes, follow the vision for a couple of years, at least. It's not like there's anyone above Winter in the organization who will be able to tell if it's on the right track and coming together or not.
This is from Aljarov at the U-Sector forum:
Who and how we bring more guys in will be a mystery to me. I know for a fact we've used all 6 of of our permitted discovery signings...on Bouchiba, Eckersley, Martina, Williams, Yourass and Zavarise. You get 6 senior discovery signings, so we've used em, and although we can sign as many DEV (equivalent, whatever ts called now) guys as we want, chances are they're not going to improve us.
I trust Aljarov, he works for FM covering MLS and knows a lot about the rules and has some insider knowledge.
We didn't find Eckersley, he found us.
Last edited by menefreghista; 05-30-2011 at 07:50 AM.
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