Goodnight gang.
Great chatting with you fucking live-at-home-douches.
I am just a cowboy here.
Thanks you fucks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B435SzgfRk&feature=fvsr
KD.
Goodnight gang.
Great chatting with you fucking live-at-home-douches.
I am just a cowboy here.
Thanks you fucks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B435SzgfRk&feature=fvsr
KD.
Originally Posted by king dave
Sometimes its better to write in real sentences than giant font if you have a point to make.
^ You should spend more time getting to know King Dave.
I still believe.
If you don't believe, or don't want to believe, why bother following the team at all. There must be better uses of your time.
I'm definitely on the side of building a long-term program that is built around a playing style and a system players from young are taught to play. Time will tell if Aaron Winter and his team will succeed in this.
Sure, it's easy to grab a bunch of players and then find a style to fit them. The challenge with that is, every year your team is different so every year you're trying to implement a new style. That does not seem logical to me. Also, every coach employs their own style or formation to some degree. So they are always trying to fit players in to how they want their teams to play.
It will take many years before we see the results of being able to pick a player out of the academy and say - here, you're playing the #2 role and the kid knows what to do. But I would rather work towards that than roll the dice each year and hope we can figure out a system for whatever 20 players we have that year.
As for Winter as a head coach - the jury is still out. We do not have enough of a track record to make a determination either way.
I don't agree with this - there is a middle ground.
I support the team, I renewed my tickets and will continue to go the matches. I will continue to support them even if they don't magically turn things around.
I hope that Winter and Co. can turn this thing around. I don't want to see them replaced, I think they've been hired an should be given a chance to change things.
That's different from actually believing it will happen though. TFC's execs have no track record of being able to deliver a quality product. They have a history of lying to us to tell us what we want to hear to placate us and get us to renew our tickets. MLSE has no track record of having teams that are capable of winning. There are enough huge question marks over the people they have brought in and the process of how the came in to make me question.
I short - I hope it happens, but I no longer blindly believe the party line from the FO. I'll believe what I can see with my own two eyes.
The old quote rings true to me "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" Except this is the fifth time....
Why do people keep coming out with this kind of comment when you are critical of the team. I've been watching them for 5 years now. I like watching them. I think they're crap so far. I'll still watch them. I love football. they play on my doorstep. Its not like i can switch channel here. I don't believe in santa but i still enjoy christmas.
Why? Because even a positive thread ends up with people who want to point out doom and gloom. It gets tiring to read. And this isn't a thread about the front office. It is about what we see on the field.
I get Brad's point - it may be too early for some. But at the same point, too early still indicates hope. Even an inkling of it. I'm not talking about that. But if you think that it is going to be horrible, my guess is that you'll find what you are looking for.
What? Here's a novel take: why not, instead of faith-based "hope" judgments, you make yours based on fact and what we've seen to date. We're third last in our conference and the two teams below us have two games in hand on us. Each.
We can't score. We can't defend. Our coach has said publicly he's ashamed of the way we played on Saturday. We have won one game out of the first six. We're in a two-way tie for the worst goal differential in the league. Our players don't give a shit - they let other teams taunt our supporters after they score on us, and more often than not, they hang their heads and give up the moment they start losing.
Against all of that, the strongest argument you (and others in the "positive story" camp) put up is that "too early" indicates there is still hope.
I would humbly suggest that if you take all of that on aggregate, and you still think supporters have no right to express concern with the current state of the club and to criticize the team, its players and a number of recent roster decisions, then you're being completely unrealistic.
I thought this was a discussion board. I'm all for positive points but not when there are clearly none. Like i have said... i don't see how you can call a defence that takes the ball to the halfway line/byline then runs back and passes straight across field eventually back to the goalie for a punt up to the opposition, a midfield that cannot pass or hold the ball up, 2 wingers who despite their skills hang on to the ball so long that they end up boxed in at the corner flag surrounded by three defenders with the nearest redshirt having a smoke up at the halway line and misfiring strikers A SYSTEM. Its not anything. Thats what has been on display. You can talk about plans and systems all you want but that is the evidence.
Most of the goals with have come from individual moments eg Santos v Van, long balls... Martina v Portland, set pieces...chivas. the only goal i have seen that showed any kind of team play was v San Jose. As for team effort Santos glaring fuck up v Chivas said it all. What system is that ? How can i believe in that.
WE traded our 2 top scorers and replaced them with players who have not shown anything YET, we have our 2 best defenders from last year underperforming, we have Peterson, Gargan and Harden starting regularly when most thought them very tradable last year or at least only as back up and we have a bunch of signings that aren't getting much air time. What is the system ? What is the plan?
It's important to temper expectations with rational thought. TFC is now the youngest team in the league. Youth traditionally equates inconsistency in professional sports. The result is an inspiring performance in San Jose and the debacle against DC United within the span of a week.
Based on the potential of the players that constitute our first team, I think this club can eventually be competitive this season if healthy and motivated.
The glaring deficiency in both ugly losses this season has been questionable tactics deployed that exploited a vulnerable backline. I'm confident that Winter will recognize that opponents are pressing forward and pouncing on turnovers, and make the necessary personnel/tactical adjustments.
I believe our most reliable backline has yet to be fielded for a match, which will go a long way to improving the defensive acumen of the club. I would like Winter to deploy Yourassowsky and Eckersley as the fullbacks to determine if they are more adept at closing the gaps on the wings, pushing forward, and distributing the ball. I also believe that the centrebacks consisting of Cann, Nana, Williams, and Harden should simplify their game based on their skillset.
If TFC can limit the number of defensive errors moving forward, the club will have a chance to earn a result in every match. Let's hope Winter will make the necessary adjustments.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 04-19-2011 at 09:01 AM.
Sorry, but anyone who thinks that this current squad will do well is seriously deluded.
Thanks to Johnston this club is no further down the road than in 2007 and the great patience shown by fans is starting to wear thin.
One win after 6 games...4 at home... is not good and does not bode well for the rest of the summer.
There was so much potential here and it's going to take an awful lot of work to repair the damage.
Last edited by Davenport; 04-19-2011 at 09:02 AM. Reason: typo
Me????? ahahahahahaha.Helll no. I just call it as I see it, give in another five games and if I see things that suggest that we are realy going nowehere, I will join Exiled Red. I just like the overall stated vision and goals, and some of the things he is trying to do, as well as most of the players he has brought in, Martina, Stevanovic, the kid from New York, and I see that there is true potential. But at some point it will have to be more then stated vision and goals, but results, he needs some more time.
[ I do wish that the process was started sooner but that is on the MLSE not winter]
This is largely the approach I am taking, except I don't feel I have enough information yet to base an opinion on. Our start is questionable, that is is expected and no indication as to how we will do. Plenty of teams have slow starts and turn it around. I remember Columbus going winless for a long time before they turned it around and were a dominate force that season.
There are two many x-factors right now, and too many things we don't know. This is not a laundry list - I don't have time to post my complete thoughts, but it is things like
-players Winter has brought in that we are not playing. Take Williams. Winter signed him, he had a brief appearance and hasn't played since. Maybe he is a dud and that's why he's not playing. Or maybe he's a stud that will solidify this back line but he is carrying a knock. We don't know yet.
-what they will do with the cap space. They have it,and the DeRo trade opened things up as well. Do they spend it or not? Do we end up with another Mista or JPA caliber player (from his first couple of seasons)
-Winter an co's ability to judge talent. With the exception of Gordon, I have question marks on every player that he signed (including Steva and Martina). Not saying they are good, bad or average yet, but none of his signing have yet to wow me beyond a strong performance in a single match.
We are shit. We have been shit for 4+ years, I have been saying this very loadly for very long. But now we have a clear and logical plan, and I think it is the right one. I believe that it can work. We will see. If five games in we are still the same shit team, maybe my view will change. But I base it on what I see on the pitch. I do not care what others see on the pitch, I base my opinion on what I see on the pitch. What I see on the pitch is a work in progress which seesm to be pointed in the right direction. A direction I want them to go in.
Faith based football - If you believe hard enough, actual evidence becomes irrelevant!
^ What????? We are shit, we have been shit. But do you expect that we become Bayern Munich overnight? I am not one to preach patience, but I am one that understands that a team in not build over a couple of games.
I means seriously have you ever read any of my post of the past four season, do I strike you are the guy to simply believe blindly?
They have played 140+ games mate -- and continue to be awful, and in many regards they are getting worse. Faith, I am afraid, is not enough for this team to get better. Money is required.
^ What? Seriously are you telling me????
Winter has not been here 140+ games, "mate". If you want to know my position on the past four years, there are plenty of post that will tell you.
Money is required? What a roster with 10 DPs plus Frie? Money is only part of the answer.
The fact that after over 4 years in existence that no progress has been made -- and we are back to square one yet again should be all the evidence you need that organizationally we continue to flounder. Graduating a load of kids from the academy and doing some window dressing is not enough to make progress. Season 5 is going to make season 4 look good. Keep believing though
^ We are back at square one, because we had too. Yes that is what I am about blind faith, you got it "mate".
What is your point anyway, we suck, so we will always suck. How do you propose to change things, other then going through the process that we are undertaking. Overwise we will keep on being shit.
Last edited by trane; 04-19-2011 at 10:39 AM.
The fact that after over 4 years in existence that no progress has been made -- and we are back to square one yet again should be all the evidence you need that organizationally we continue to flounder. Graduating a load of kids from the academy and doing some window dressing is not enough to make progress. Season 5 is going to make season 4 look good. Keep believing though
It's not true that "no progress has been made." this team started from scratch. An infrastructure had to be built. It was built too slowly, no doubt, and it's not finished yet, but it is improving.
There was clearly no proper business plan from the beginning that increased investment in any organized, directed way. The organization scrambled for four years with inexperienced people obvisouly in over their heads and only started to get their act together when they were passed by other teams and put under pressure by supporters.
What happened in the off season - hiring the consultant and putting together a plan - is what should have been done as soon as they were given the franchise, but it wasn't. There's not much point in worrying about that now, but there's also not much point in refusing to see that things have changed.
^ Thank you.
The process -- the management trying to force a system of play the players are not equipped to cope with and is unnatural. Over reliance of young (cheap) players. Failure to invest in depth. Failure to invest in talent. The virtual assurance that their will be no investment in DP talent this season.
If a ship is on the wrong course -- you do not get a new captain and not change course.
^ Well, you believe a different solution and direction is need. Fair enough. I agree with the present direction, as I think that we need to implement and teach one system of play, and built a squad around that system of play.
I think that footy is not just about tallent, but the merging of the right tallent with the right system for that tallent. I think this is what Winter is trying to do. We will see if it will work.
i gotta agree with trane on here.
i think we all agree, it's just everyone has a different view of "progress".
some think progress means: a winning team / good GD / a playoff run
some think it means: a young team / a new system implemented / a youth academy
neither are wrong, but that doesn't stop us from arguing about it. whether we like to admit it or not, this team has made progress. we may not be winning, but we're moving forward and showing signs of a serious cup/CCL run in the next 5 years. i'm talking consistent top of the table and never looking back. i can see it happening, and i intend to hold out hope of that view until the day it escapes me.
After six games:
2007 - 6 points
2008 - 10 points
2009 - 8 points
2010 - 8 points
2011 - 6 points
Yes - things have certainly changed. How foolish of me to refuse to see the obvious improvement...
^ You are right. We are wrong. Discussion done.
If only everything were that easy!
In case you haven't noticed, no one that I recall has predicted a successful club on the pitch this season. If anything, even the most optimistic supporters have cautioned that this is a rebuilding year and are ready to accept what has been a slow start out of the gate with the hope that the team will gradually improve throughout the season.
Is it acceptable to be asked for more patience given the struggles of the franchise for the first four years? Guess what, that is up to each individual. Don't fool yourself into expecting immediate results with this club and then you won't be bitter over the results in the short term. Winter and Mariner deserve better than to be saddled with unrealistic expectations as a result of the clusterfuck that they inherited.
The infrastucture of the club is finally being built in a manner that is condusive to long term stability and success. If this was year one, the current regime was in place, and the plans for the Academy complex were initiated, everyone would be ecstatic despite the results on the pitch thus far.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 04-19-2011 at 11:09 AM.
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