With dwindling sales...

[Pachuco]

You know that sections 111, 119 are priced more than 112-118? That 127 is more than 112?

That 111 and 119 are priced the same as 219, 220? And that the upper part of 110 are the same as upper 105 and all of 104?

So, in conclusion, supporter's prices are already different based on vantage points. Some "supporters" sections are priced the same as non-supporters in other areas of the stadium.

Nowhere in this idea to make 109-105 standing sections at the top is the provision that they MUST be priced the same as 112. You could charge more based on the vantage point but less than you'd charge for a seat nearer the action (lower row).

Riddle me this, which sections go relatively unsold for CCL games?

What's 100% of $0?

Lower the price, encourage the atmosphere and they might sell more tickets and re-establish their wait list.

TFC already charge in the top 3 for seats all over the stadium, including the most expensive seats in the league (2010) for behind the goal seats in the North End.

Pricing needs an overhaul... despite your suggestion that it is the worst idea ever.

Yes pricing needs an overhaul. Not sure what that has to do with your idea of putting supporters right behind the suits. Your idea isn't to simply drop prices. Your idea is to get MLSE to give supporter's some of the best seats in the house at supporter pricing. Good luck with that. I can't imagine who would sit in the south if they can sit in the best seats in the house for similar pricing.

[jimiv]

If seats continue to stay empty, why not discount the east stand and make the whole side the "supporters stand" ,move those who don't wish to stand, sing, or hear "blue" language to the West side.

It would look great for the TV cameras.

[brad]

He is saying turn the top of 107 and 108 (amongst other sections) into SUPPORTERS sections. That's an absurd idea. Second most expensive tickets at BMO field and you think you can turn those into supporter's sections?

But the top of sections like 104 and 105 are the cheapest seats in the stadium outside the supporters end.

Regardless, why does every person that sits in a standing area assume everyone else wants to stand? Good luck finding that many people at BMO that want to stand and chant all game long. Lately, it doesn't even look like people sitting in the designated supporter's sections want to chant either.

You are speaking hypothetically. I am speaking from expeience. In the first two seasons, the back of 105 (and 104 when not reserved for away supporters) stood all game every game and were rowdy. There were no issues, everyone wanted to. When security cracked down - it drove everyone out and killed the atmosphere.

I was flat out told by my ticket rep that there were no problems in that area. There were no complaints, but they couldn't allow it because it would send the wrong message to other pockets where there were complaints.

This entire problem has to do with interest dwindling down, not where people are sitting or standing.

Price and a crappy team are the biggest factors. But killing the game day atmosphere has played a big part for a lot of people. Again - this is not hypothetical but what I've heard first hand from a lot of people in my section that gave up their tickets.

[brad]

The top of 110 is cheaper then the bottom of 110 because the view is worst. But you can't all of a sudden charge supporter's prices at the top of 107 and keep charging what you are charging in 109. It throws everything out of whack. It would never work and it's the worst idea I've seen proposed.

Perceived by some to be a better view. You get a better look at the players when they are up close, but you get a much better view of the entire match up higher. That's the reason that the most expensive tickets in Europe are usually at the half way point in the second tier.

[Alixir]

Perceived by some to be a better view. You get a better look at the players when they are up close, but you get a much better view of the entire match up higher. That's the reason that the most expensive tickets in Europe are usually at the half way point in the second tier.

its the same in Japan. Midfield uppers are the money seats...hell the corners are more expensive then the supports sections on the ends.

[torontocelt]

This is a great idea and one that I suggested to my rep a couple of years ago.

I think the issue is that the seats at the back of some sections are cheaper than the seats at the front. A re-shuffle like this would involve either changing that pricing scheme or forcing people that want to sit to potentially double the cost of their seasons.

Who in their right mind would pay double to sit down? Most people would rather give up their seasons than pay double for the right to actually sit in their own seat. I would not be held to ransom like this for sure.

[brad]

Who in their right mind would pay double to sit down? Most people would rather give up their seasons than pay double for the right to actually sit in their own seat. I would not be held to ransom like this for sure.

No one would - including me. They could have gotten creative and fixed the pricing scheme to make it work for everyone. In the end, they drove a couple hundred season ticket holders out. The back three rows of the whole section were more or less empty for the past two years.

[ag futbol]

wishful thinking.

MLSE wants less troublesome soccer moms. they are less maintenance than rowdy supporter types

Strange enough (well maybe not considering what we've seen in the past) soccer moms are on average inappropriate customers to base your team on. If the TFC hadn't figured out how to cater to a supporters base and create a business model around it MLS would look a lot different right now.

The Marketing intelligence when it came to families / soccer mom's found the following:

1) They were very price sensitive

2) They were very prone to switching with different trends in family activities (Jimmy does Karate now, so we're watching something else).

3) Retained very little enjoyment from the game itself and continuously required gimics to keep them coming to the park (free t-shirt, hotdog, blah, blah blah).

As for the supporters, they were pretty much the anti-thesis of that. Rumors of hooligan armageddon were greatly exaggerated and people realized selling beer makes a greater margin than giving away free shit.

[andyc]

Maybe MLSE should do stuff to encourage fans to buy tickets.... Ground breaking stuff for sure. Maybe stuff other teams do like:

- Have reasonably priced tickets for SSH
- Bring in top tier European clubs included in the season ticket price
- Lower concession prices
- Real promotional campaigns
- Free gravy boats

Please don't make excuses for MLSE such as stadium size. This club makes a healthy profit and they didn't give a sh*t when demand exceeded supply. Now is the time for the club to look at what they can do for us....

[Pookie]

Who in their right mind would pay double to sit down? Most people would rather give up their seasons than pay double for the right to actually sit in their own seat. I would not be held to ransom like this for sure.

Folks in rows 1 - 19 of 110 already pay more to sit.

No one is necessarily saying double and no one is saying the whole east side maybe it is the last 5 - 10 rows. Maybe if you stand in 108 your "supporters ticket" is more expensive than the guy in 114. 110 supporters tickets are already more expensive.

This is a move designed to bring atmosphere back. Or they could do nothing and keep the library next to a frat party and watch again as people migrate out next year

[torontocelt]

Folks in rows 1 - 19 of 110 already pay more to sit.

No one is necessarily saying double and no one is saying the whole east side maybe it is the last 5 - 10 rows. Maybe if you stand in 108 your "supporters ticket" is more expensive than the guy in 114. 110 supporters tickets are already more expensive.

This is a move designed to bring atmosphere back. Or they could do nothing and keep the library next to a frat party and watch again as people migrate out next year

I understand what you are saying Pookie and it is a good idea but a previous poster was quoting double which is nuts although he may have just been picking any number. It is a good idea but there still has to be a balance in ticket prices. Also I would not want to sit in the first few rows in in front of people standing in case they were doing the bouncy and were spilling their drinks etc.

Another idea is they could reduce all ticket prices and have more family areas. If people could take their kids out on a summers day and not pay much then that would benefit TFC especially if they do not have to be situated next to fans who are jumping about and swearing. I sat in an ordinary section once and there was a young family in front of me and I felt real bad for them that their kids had to listen to some guys shouting really offensive things, I am pretty sure they would not have come back to TFC after that.

The best thing that can happen in my opinion is that casual fans continue to give up seasons as hopefully this will drive down ticket prices. TFC will do what other MLS clubs do and offer better incentives to go and perhaps more people will pick up individual tickets or smaller packages. The quality is not high enough to charge what they do, people are realizing this and it is a harder sell. If TFC could offer a pack in conjunction with ontario place then they could get more families in too in the summer, they sometimes offer this and it would be interesting to see how successful it actually is. I would think that families would probably spend more in concessions than most people also.

[lobo]

brad, i also sit in top of 105, row 29 ... gotta say, you are right, the atmosphere in our section has gone from great to almost nil in the past 3 years, although it can still be fun when there are away supporters in 104 top ... there's a bunch of guys in the top rows, maybe it's you, who do their best to get things going and a few others and i will always join in, but it sure ain't like it was ... i agree that standing would add much to the top of our section, but it seems unlikely ... this year i'll be splitting games between upper 105 and lower 110 just so i can get back some of those good times

[brad]

I understand what you are saying Pookie and it is a good idea but a previous poster was quoting double which is nuts although he may have just been picking any number. It is a good idea but there still has to be a balance in ticket prices.

Where the double figure came from is in 105 - tickets in the lower half are twice the price as the upper half. What I was getting at is if you start shifting people from top to bottom to accomadate this, you have a problem for exactly the reason you cite.

[habstfc]

Where the double figure came from is in 105 - tickets in the lower half are twice the price as the upper half.

No they're not. Lower half are $10 more.

[superstar1976]

I'm happy I didn't renew. I felt gouged, lied to, and just couldn't justify the cost of game day.

I'm a fan, but I watch on TV and plenty of people I know have to give their tickets away so I still get to go!

[brad]

No they're not. Lower half are $10 more.

I'm not talking singles - I'm talking seasons. The seasons in the lower half of 105 are not quite twice - but close. $627 for the lower half, $361 for the upper (for renewals).

Cost of one off tickets is irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about having to move season ticket holders to allow for standing. People buying one offs have to take what is available.

[habstfc]

I think a solution for the north stands is simple, make the first 6 rows (there are 18 rows I believe) medium grey pricing and the last 12 rows light grey. It would kind of be like greens and purples at the ACC. They have to charge more than the south end as the vanatage point is much better than the south. I sat in the north stands for about 8 games last year and they are much better. They are not however, worth twice as much, which is what they are charging now. I think people might spend 40 bucks or so to sit there but not 60 when you include service charges which is complete lunacy.

[kodiakTFC]

I think a solution for the north stands is simple, make the first 6 rows (there are 18 rows I believe) medium grey pricing and the last 12 rows light grey. It would kind of be like greens and purples at the ACC. They have to charge more than the south end as the vanatage point is much better than the south. I sat in the north stands for about 8 games last year and they are much better. They are not however, worth twice as much, which is what they are charging now. I think people might spend 40 bucks or so to sit there but not 60 when you include service charges which is complete lunacy.

I actually really like this idea, hopefully the team adopts something like this.