MLS Supplemental Draft

[Red CB Toronto]

yup, good details. thanks for the breakdown.

But the contract for every player is still the same contract.
Last year, there was just a standard player contract. So a player doesn't sign a contract for developmental or a contract for first team. It's just a contract.

How those contracts are designated on the MLS side for cap purposes is a totally different story.
I'm eagerly awaiting the new CBA to be posted to the union website.

You are right on that, a contract is a contract when it comes to your status with the team, you either have one or you don't.

I figure as in the past with the Reds, these guys and even some of the super draft picks will initially be brought in on a trial basis and have to show their worth before actually being inked to a deal. Kyle Hall and Mike Zaher were examples of this situation in the past, where they were in the pre-season with the Reds after being drafted but were never signed. In the case of Zaher his rights were traded to D.C. who subsquently signed him to a contract.

[Sullivan]

8th - Jimmy Banks, (Midfield) UWGB
I think this was a good pick, but he needs time to develop.
Looked comfortable playing wide at the combine. Read & reacted well on and off the ball. Positionally he held the shape, down side he didn't get a lot of service, and with what service he did get, he was rather constructive with it. Guys that were familiar with him were surprised he dropped to the supp draft.
We agreed that he reminded us of a Will Johnson type player.

13th - Stephen Beattie, (Forward) Northern Kentucky
Played in the PDL with Cincinnati, same conference as the Stynx.
One of my mates is friends with the Cincinnati coach. At the combine we tagged him the Irish version of Marco Velez. There is a very good reason why he was an alternate and last minute combine invitee, unfortunately he had good stats against very weak opponents. 2nd division NCAA is a big drop off from D1.
He's no Kei Kamara (KC), who was a D2 player who has found success in MLS.
Perhaps camp fodder. Not sure about internationals in the reserve programs but think about it, does TFC burn an international pick on a D2 kid? I hope not!

26th - Spencer Thompson, (Forward) Michigan State University
This was a kid that should have been invited to the combine. Not an elite player, perhaps above average.
He had a killer of a game against Maryland at College Park.
I hear he's Dasovic's pick.
More camp fodder, maybe a reserve player.

44th - Scott Rojo, (Midfield) High Point University
Big South conference is pointy ball territory not football. Weak competition.
I don't know a thing about this kid, NCAA wise.
However, I have notes on this kid from a Dallas Cup trip. Real small, quick, good ball skill - but a ball hog.
Welcome to TFC, too bad you won't be staying long.
Average, maybe above average, according to contacts that are familiar with Big South footy.

[Red CB Toronto]

8th - Jimmy Banks, (Midfield) UWGB
I think this was a good pick, but he needs time to develop.
Looked comfortable playing wide at the combine. Read & reacted well on and off the ball. Positionally he held the shape, down side he didn't get a lot of service, and with what service he did get, he was rather constructive with it. Guys that were familiar with him were surprised he dropped to the supp draft.
We agreed that he reminded us of a Will Johnson type player.

13th - Stephen Beattie, (Forward) Northern Kentucky
Played in the PDL with Cincinnati, same conference as the Stynx.
One of my mates is friends with the Cincinnati coach. At the combine we tagged him the Irish version of Marco Velez. There is a very good reason why he was an alternate and last minute combine invitee, unfortunately he had good stats against very weak opponents. 2nd division NCAA is a big drop off from D1.
He's no Kei Kamara (KC), who was a D2 player who has found success in MLS.
Perhaps camp fodder. Not sure about internationals in the reserve programs but think about it, does TFC burn an international pick on a D2 kid? I hope not!

26th - Spencer Thompson, (Forward) Michigan State University
This was a kid that should have been invited to the combine. Not an elite player, perhaps above average.
He had a killer of a game against Maryland at College Park.
I hear he's Dasovic's pick.
More camp fodder, maybe a reserve player.

44th - Scott Rojo, (Midfield) High Point University
Big South conference is pointy ball territory not football. Weak competition.
I don't know a thing about this kid, NCAA wise.
However, I have notes on this kid from a Dallas Cup trip. Real small, quick, good ball skill - but a ball hog.
Welcome to TFC, too bad you won't be staying long.
Average, maybe above average, according to contacts that are familiar with Big South footy.

Thanks for the great info, what division is Hight Point, 1, 2 or 3?

[jloome]

13th - Stephen Beattie, (Forward) Northern Kentucky
Played in the PDL with Cincinnati, same conference as the Stynx.
One of my mates is friends with the Cincinnati coach. At the combine we tagged him the Irish version of Marco Velez. There is a very good reason why he was an alternate and last minute combine invitee, unfortunately he had good stats against very weak opponents. 2nd division NCAA is a big drop off from D1.
He's no Kei Kamara (KC), who was a D2 player who has found success in MLS.
Perhaps camp fodder. Not sure about internationals in the reserve programs but think about it, does TFC burn an international pick on a D2 kid? I hope not!

I see the linear logic of what you're saying on Steven Beattie, I also know linear logic has a long and distinguished history of being wrong.

Kid has defied the odds at each level by being undersized, and he's always been a double digit scorer, so maybe he wasn't that inflated at the combo. We'll see.

[Yohan]

I see the linear logic of what you're saying on Steven Beattie, I also know linear logic has a long and distinguished history of being wrong.

Kid has defied the odds at each level by being undersized, and he's always been a double digit scorer, so maybe he wasn't that inflated at the combo. We'll see.

It is a big step from NCAA to MLS...

[Ontario Arab]

All the best players ever in the game have been undersized lol.

[Yohan]

it sounds like in both drafts, TFC went for more technical players than physical players

[Sullivan]

When it comes around to the supp draft, one of the players I think about is Chris Wondolowski - 2005 Supp Draft, Round 4, 5th pick or overall pick #41.

CBlake,
High Point is Div 1


Jloome,
Beattie plays 25 games in 2010, scores 26 goals, that's a 1.04 goal per game clip. He doesn't accomplish this because he's lucky. The boy has skill, however, the level of play at D2 isn't the best place to hone skills in pursuit of a career in MLS. And depending on the rules about international spots, he's certainly not worthy of an international spot. If nationality is not relevant with regard to development spots, that's different.

His PDL coach thinks that being around better players could be a better indicator of how or where he might fit, but it may also highlight his deficiencies. TFC didn't select him based on the combine. I'm willing to bet that Duncan and Billy (PDL Lynx) had some input to complement what Daso, Dichio and Regan had already acquired.

That said, I agree that time will tell.

Any player that adds and enhances the competitive nature of the club is obviously a player worth holding on to.

If TFC is willing to risk a supp pick on Beattie, keep an eye/ear for Kyle Ciliento. He's another D2 player, but he's 2 years younger than Beattie; played 20 games, scored 27 goals (Grand Canyon University - Pacific West Conference). Ciliento was the top D2 goal scorer in 2010.

FYI:
Div 1 top scorer was Cory Hertzog, 22 games, 20 goals.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/soccer-men...ndividual/5/p1

[Sullivan]

it sounds like in both drafts, TFC went for more technical players than physical players

Sure looks that way.
Total football.

[jloome]

When it comes around to the supp draft, one of the players I think about is Chris Wondolowski - 2005 Supp Draft, Round 4, 5th pick or overall pick #41.

CBlake,
High Point is Div 1


Jloome,
Beattie plays 25 games in 2010, scores 26 goals, that's a 1.04 goal per game clip. He doesn't accomplish this because he's lucky. The boy has skill, however, the level of play at D2 isn't the best place to hone skills in pursuit of a career in MLS. And depending on the rules about international spots, he's certainly not worthy of an international spot. If nationality is not relevant with regard to development spots, that's different.

His PDL coach thinks that being around better players could be a better indicator of how or where he might fit, but it may also highlight his deficiencies. TFC didn't select him based on the combine. I'm willing to bet that Duncan and Billy (PDL Lynx) had some input to complement what Daso, Dichio and Regan had already acquired.

That said, I agree that time will tell.

Any player that adds and enhances the competitive nature of the club is obviously a player worth holding on to.

If TFC is willing to risk a supp pick on Beattie, keep an eye/ear for Kyle Ciliento. He's another D2 player, but he's 2 years younger than Beattie; played 20 games, scored 27 goals (Grand Canyon University - Pacific West Conference). Ciliento was the top D2 goal scorer in 2010.

FYI:
Div 1 top scorer was Cory Hertzog, 22 games, 20 goals.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/soccer-men...ndividual/5/p1

All good points man, all good points. I've known guys in high school who could dribble around teams, but had zero positional sense when they had to step it up a level. I thought he was interesting because the inner-city rivalry at the Belfast schoolboy level is pretty heavy and has produced some good footballers, and he broke some records there,too.

But like you say, may mean nothing against upper talent.

Do you know why Hunter West never made it? I remember him doing really well in our first training camp and scoring a few goals, but they never gave him a look beyond that, and he didn't go to USL.

[KezmanCCCC]

what the hell is a supplemental draft?? thats one reason why this league can get really confusing and all these random drafts dont help.... re-entry drafts, supplemental drafts etc..... the only drafts that are necessary are the super draft and expantion drafts....

[Sullivan]

Do you know why Hunter West never made it? I remember him doing really well in our first training camp and scoring a few goals, but they never gave him a look beyond that, and he didn't go to USL.

What I heard was that the 2 Canadians, Andrea Lombardo & David Guzman, were stronger.

[Red CB Toronto]

When it comes around to the supp draft, one of the players I think about is Chris Wondolowski - 2005 Supp Draft, Round 4, 5th pick or overall pick #41.

CBlake,
High Point is Div 1


Jloome,
Beattie plays 25 games in 2010, scores 26 goals, that's a 1.04 goal per game clip. He doesn't accomplish this because he's lucky. The boy has skill, however, the level of play at D2 isn't the best place to hone skills in pursuit of a career in MLS. And depending on the rules about international spots, he's certainly not worthy of an international spot. If nationality is not relevant with regard to development spots, that's different.

His PDL coach thinks that being around better players could be a better indicator of how or where he might fit, but it may also highlight his deficiencies. TFC didn't select him based on the combine. I'm willing to bet that Duncan and Billy (PDL Lynx) had some input to complement what Daso, Dichio and Regan had already acquired.

That said, I agree that time will tell.

Any player that adds and enhances the competitive nature of the club is obviously a player worth holding on to.

If TFC is willing to risk a supp pick on Beattie, keep an eye/ear for Kyle Ciliento. He's another D2 player, but he's 2 years younger than Beattie; played 20 games, scored 27 goals (Grand Canyon University - Pacific West Conference). Ciliento was the top D2 goal scorer in 2010.

FYI:
Div 1 top scorer was Cory Hertzog, 22 games, 20 goals.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/soccer-men...ndividual/5/p1

Thanks for the info, I have a few questions is Division NCAA soccer 1 soccer top heavy when it comes to the quality where the top teams dominate and then their is everyone else. Also how would the bottom third of Division 1 compare with the top third of division 2? Where is the ladder would CIS compare, with mid to bottom division 1 or 2 overall.

[Sullivan]

Thanks for the info, I have a few questions is Division NCAA soccer 1 soccer top heavy when it comes to the quality where the top teams dominate and then their is everyone else. Also how would the bottom third of Division 1 compare with the top third of division 2? Where is the ladder would CIS compare, with mid to bottom division 1 or 2 overall.

is Division NCAA soccer 1 soccer top heavy when it comes to the quality where the top teams dominate and then their is everyone else.

There are about 25-30 top programs in Div 1, out of maybe close to 200 (give or take) Div1 soccer programs for men. These schools are very serious about soccer - they run summer camps, have wide scouting networks (alumni), have major sponsorship deals, and operate much like a pro program. A few of them also subscribe to Prozone. So yes, they tend to be the big dogs. The top Div1 programs are the programs that are able to recruit the top prospects (players who are National team pool players). Look at the rosters (player bio’s), and you’ll get a feel for part of my point here. Another factor is $$$. And not scholarship coin, but $$$ for facilities, transportation, travel (recruiting). To the topic of scholarships, in NCAA Div 1, there is a limit on scholarships, 9.9; Div 2 is 9, most programs spread them out over the roster and supplement them with academic money. Div 3 (including the Ivy’s) no scholarships, they call it financial aid (we call it affirmative action).

Also how would the bottom third of Division 1 compare with the top third of division 2?

In a very broad sense, very comparable, however I’m more inclined to say that the top 30 or so D2s would be stronger than the majority of bottom 1/3 D1s. It could differ season-to-season depending on recruiting.

Where is the ladder would CIS compare, with mid to bottom division 1 or 2 overall.

CIS would be all over the map, D1, D2 and D3. A lot of it depends on $$$. I tend to think that any program that qualified for the CIS championships could compete with a majority of top D1 programs. For example, York was the top men’s program in 2010, winning the CIS championship, probably would compete with most top 10 NCAA programs. Personally I don’t think they have the depth of an Akron, Louisville or UNC but they wouldn’t get blown out. I tend to think they would do well against Michigan, who was the remaining program in the final 4.

Let me present this thought, Niagara University ((Lewiston, NY)( across the river from Niagara Falls, ON)) compete in the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference (MAAC). I think that any OUA program could survive and compete in that conference. It’s D1, and depending on the roster, a solid team could make the NCAA tournament. The MAAC isn’t a talent rich conference, majority of players are very average in terms of skill. So rarely do we see more than one MAAC program in the NCAA; and more often than not, the conference champ is eliminated in round 1. Case in point, this year’s MAAC champ was St Peters, they were thrashed 6-2 by Providence College, who then lost in round 2 to Ohio State, 1-2.

[jloome]

What I heard was that the 2 Canadians, Andrea Lombardo & David Guzman, were stronger.

Disappointing but maybe a good call, since he didn't pursue it elsewhere. Last I heard he was coaching at a camp in Florida. His consistency of performance over various levels was what attracted me, as with Beattie.

Interesting to note that at PDL, Beattie was still one-in 2, seven goals in 14 games, which is a better translation rate than you get from some Div 1 guys in PDL.

[Detroit_TFC]

Here's what my buddy in East Lansing said about Thompson:

"He's a good holding midfielder, and could be a crowd favorite. He tends to get under opponents' skin, and brings mental toughness to the midfield. I think he has a bright pro future."

I had forgot that he played for PDL Michigan Bucks, which means I've seen him play a bunch of times, never really noticed him. As a holding midfielder, if I didn't notice him that probably means he didn't screw up much.

[Gazza_55]

is Division NCAA soccer 1 soccer top heavy when it comes to the quality where the top teams dominate and then their is everyone else.

There are about 25-30 top programs in Div 1, out of maybe close to 200 (give or take) Div1 soccer programs for men. These schools are very serious about soccer - they run summer camps, have wide scouting networks (alumni), have major sponsorship deals, and operate much like a pro program. A few of them also subscribe to Prozone. So yes, they tend to be the big dogs. The top Div1 programs are the programs that are able to recruit the top prospects (players who are National team pool players). Look at the rosters (player bio’s), and you’ll get a feel for part of my point here. Another factor is $$$. And not scholarship coin, but $$$ for facilities, transportation, travel (recruiting). To the topic of scholarships, in NCAA Div 1, there is a limit on scholarships, 9.9; Div 2 is 9, most programs spread them out over the roster and supplement them with academic money. Div 3 (including the Ivy’s) no scholarships, they call it financial aid (we call it affirmative action).

Also how would the bottom third of Division 1 compare with the top third of division 2?

In a very broad sense, very comparable, however I’m more inclined to say that the top 30 or so D2s would be stronger than the majority of bottom 1/3 D1s. It could differ season-to-season depending on recruiting.

Where is the ladder would CIS compare, with mid to bottom division 1 or 2 overall.

CIS would be all over the map, D1, D2 and D3. A lot of it depends on $$$. I tend to think that any program that qualified for the CIS championships could compete with a majority of top D1 programs. For example, York was the top men’s program in 2010, winning the CIS championship, probably would compete with most top 10 NCAA programs. Personally I don’t think they have the depth of an Akron, Louisville or UNC but they wouldn’t get blown out. I tend to think they would do well against Michigan, who was the remaining program in the final 4.

Let me present this thought, Niagara University ((Lewiston, NY)( across the river from Niagara Falls, ON)) compete in the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference (MAAC). I think that any OUA program could survive and compete in that conference. It’s D1, and depending on the roster, a solid team could make the NCAA tournament. The MAAC isn’t a talent rich conference, majority of players are very average in terms of skill. So rarely do we see more than one MAAC program in the NCAA; and more often than not, the conference champ is eliminated in round 1. Case in point, this year’s MAAC champ was St Peters, they were thrashed 6-2 by Providence College, who then lost in round 2 to Ohio State, 1-2.

Good Info. I have a few questions too.

What's the deal with Akron? Have they always been a top NCAA school or just since Caleb Porter got there? Also with ESPN and Univ. of Texas signing that deal for $300m to cover their athletics I heard that they approached Porter to run their Division 1 soccer program. Any chance he would leave?

[Sullivan]

Good Info. I have a few questions too.

What's the deal with Akron? Have they always been a top NCAA school or just since Caleb Porter got there? Also with ESPN and Univ. of Texas signing that deal for $300m to cover their athletics I heard that they approached Porter to run their Division 1 soccer program. Any chance he would leave?

What's the deal with Akron? Have they always been a top NCAA school or just since Caleb Porter got there?
Credit has to be extended to ex Akron coach / current Louisville coach Ken Lolla. He laid the foundation that Porter improved. Porter has guided the Zips into the elite category, Akron, under Lolla was a top 25 program most years than not. Louisville was #1 this year, so Lolla has a pretty good idea of what needs to occur, but more importantly, he is a great recruiter.

Also with ESPN and Univ. of Texas signing that deal for $300m to cover their athletics I heard that they approached Porter to run their Division 1 soccer program.
Everyone wants Porter. Porter used his "popularity" as leverage and just re-upped for what is rumoured to be 5 years. It's alleged that he's one of the top 3 paid coaches in NCAA soccer. Plus, he gets a good chunk of camp coin as well. He has 2 out clauses, one for pro opportunities, and one for national team opportunities.

Any chance he would leave?
Yup. But it will under his terms, when he's ready.
We keep hearing that his short list might be DC, Chicago or Columbus.