Or any other domed stadium for that matter. City of Regina/Province of Saskatchewan, you've been warned!Originally Posted by Roogsy
Or any other domed stadium for that matter. City of Regina/Province of Saskatchewan, you've been warned!
they ought to check their photo captions a bit better eh?
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/...ronto-new-e-0/
~ illegitimi non carborundum ~
A great deal of JDG's potential rests with JDG.
Is his head with TFC? Will he continue to miss curfews? Is he committed to his own career or simply collecting money before moving back to Spain and retiring?
Aint' that the truth.
I dont know why anybody is particularly excited about these moves.
They brought in a new management team, but these are still the same idiots who let Mo Johnston fuck around for four years.
Until I see some actual results, or at least some legit talent being brought in, I have no reason to believe this isnt the same fuck up club it has always been.
^ Listen I have been as critical as anyone, but this is the foundation a direction. We have been missing even this.
Its fine. Its a start, and I am not unhappy with it. I am just not about to sing the praises of Tom Anselmi and the rest of the MLSE brass that spent the last 4 years eating every last bit of bullshit that Mo Johnston fed them.
^ I am with you there. This shuold have been what we did in 2007, not 2011. However, as I said earlier, I think the interest and potential took them by suprise.
^Anselmi said that they should have done something like this back in 2007 in one of the post presser interviews. I think they honestly thought it was easier to win in MLS than it is.
I also think that they know very little about the game as an ownership group (not many north americian corporations would) and listened to a silver tonged devil in Mo.
As much as people on this board like to believe that MLSE go out of their way to field a losing team, I would argue it's far more to do with ignorance and maybe arrogance than reckless decision making and apathy.
^ they're really not that dumb to fall for a "silver tongued devil." i have my problems with MLSE, but they aren't dumb and they aren't that easily fooled. Their goal wasn't to win so they didn't estimate the difficulty. Look, everything has gone according to plan, they've sold out the season tickets five straight years and spent money only after they'd made it, no deficit spending here. In truth, it was the right thing to do as long as the fanbase went along with it and we did.
You see, it's this stuff.
What proof do you have of this? I think to say that winning wasn't a goal is a little crazy, don't you?
Some times I have to wonder about this board...one time capital expenses are one time vs. ongoing annual expense ? Oh really...people who dont know what they speak of, should not comment. The capital expenditure is amortized and expensed on annual basis as a depreciation expense over a certain period (3, 5 7 years, whatever), so not only are you hit with the one time cash outlay, but the investment moves from your balance sheet to your ongoing P&L...
agreed, maybe they were ill informed adn ill prepared but i dont think for a minute they planned to not win right out the gate
I'd love to hear your case for it being the "right thing to do".
Hearing that from Anselmi doesnt really inspire confidence. What that tells me is that Anselmi is an indecisive pussy who is either unwilling, or incapable of making difficult decisions, even when they become bluntly obvious.
From MLSE's perspective, of course it was the right thing to do. They made gobs of money while spending nothing more than the coins found in the MLSE office couches. They also got to test the market and see exactly how little effort they can put out while still making money.
I think that what Beach Red means, is that MLSE goal is to make money, as opposed to win. THis does not mean that they are not trying to win, is that as an corporate interest, their goal is and trully should be PROFIT, which they are great at.
This is why I think it come down to not understanding the market and potential, now that they realize that if they do not put the right product on the pitch they will lose the golde goose, and that if they invest and the team wins, they can gather benifits beyong what they may have imagined earlier, they decided to invest not just money, but intelectual capital and organizational time to ensure the proper growth from the club. They are doing this because it will produce greater profits, and they know this.
By the way I do not blame them, this is what corporate enteties should be driven by profits.
Surely you jest. Accepting "silver tongued devils" doesn't take an absence of intelligence, because it's the norm in most companies.
Anyone who's spent any time in an environment like MLSE's can tell you incompetence is bred by familiarity and camraderie in the absence of direction, purpose and passion.
People promote the people they like who are company guys and don't make waves. Even when it's clearly the wrong person. But that's normal throughout the business community (and just about any community for that matter; leadership has never been decided by competency, but usually by popularity and/or fear).
I don't doubt they're happy with the financial outcome, but you're giving them too much credit for the intelligence to even have a "five year plan" in the first place.
And even if they had, to assume it's to the exclusion of winning when there's really nothing to gained by losing doesn't make a lot of sense.
I get that their incompetent John, I just think you're on kind of an orthodox bent now in posts about the evils of MLSE. Not to DeRo/Roogsy levels, mind, but to the exclusion of considering more likely alternatives .... like the fact that a company that has billions in play but can't make more than 5% on their bottom line over a decade is just not very competently run.
^ This I tend to agree. This is the sense I have whenever I have had interaction with people from the MLSE, not necessarily the football side, but over the years different people in the corporate structure. It is not uncomon however, in well settled companies, they get too comfortable, not dynamic enough.
I am extremely optimistic with these moves.
I got the impression from the press conference that Klinsman has done his job. We have a direction and a playing style that will appeal to the supporters and the players. We have never had a press conference like this in our history. Roles are clearly defined amongst the front office and for the first time in our club's history I think that it is clear that there will be no "general manager" role. Winter and Mariner will decide what players they want, Earl will simply go get them.
The most exciting part is that the academy players will be brought up in whatever style it is the club had adapted. It was a major issue before when Stuart Nelly had no idea what style of play the club had chosen. He didn't have any systems or style to place emphasis on at the academy...now he does.
I am willing to to write off this season as a new beginning but come the 2012 season I would expect that TFC would be competing for the Eastern Conference title. Especially with the way MLS is structured.
+1. Say what you want about the MLSE executives, but they didn't get into those positions by having "losing attitudes".
Yeah, yeah, sure, but that hiring wasn't even close to "wrong." It was a guy who had six games of managerial experience - six games. And it was an expansion team with absolutely no infrastructure in place. You know they require more experience for the waiters in their restaurant.
It's like Trane said, their primary goal is to make money. (it's very similar to the producers I work with - the writers and directors love movies, the producers like them but they love money. I go through these struggles all the time in art vs. commerce and I realize you need both for it to work. Sports is a similar dynamic and can be just as frustrating - I'm sure you go through it, too).
They entered MLS very cautiously - which is good business (just frustrating as a fan to watch), who knew if it was really going to work. As they made more money they upgraded; installed grass, a traning facility and an upgrade to management. They weren't "fooled" when they hired a guy with six games experience (wasn't he still under contract to this single-entity league?) they knew what they were getting. They knew if the league kept growing and, as Oldtimer pointed out in another thread, when Vancouver joined with a completely different forn office structure, they'd have to upgrade (also, as Oldtimer pointed out - since the hiring of Klinsmann, this is costing them a fortune - money they weren't spending in year one).
If TFC won the MLS Cup and the Leafs won the Stanley Cup and both teams lost money, would MLSE execs get bonuses? Would they get promotions?
I'm joking about the five year plan. But I do think the operating budget for TFC has increased too slowly, given the amount of money we're all spending on the team, but that's why MLSE is a profitable company - they know business and aren't ruled by their passions. You see what happens with sports teams when a 'fan' becomes the owner.
"......then we make wonderful time over here." B.D.K 2011 Cant fookin wait till the first game now TFC TFC TFC TFC TFC
one thing I like about the Paul Mariner signing is that he can temper Winter and De Klerk a bit. What I mean is, if Winter thinks he can install a certain system that just won't work in MLS or wants a certain player one can't get under the cap, Mariner will be there to give a reality check based on MLS experience. Although Winter sounded like he knew what he was getting into. actually, I think it was De Klerk during the press conference, responding to the "Total Football" question, that he understood there was a type of style to be played in MLS, not simply an application of Total Football to a league that's never had it. That's smart. I'm cautiously optimistic.
http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?cont...106_210411_716
Paul Mariner on the Soccer Show. Worth a listen. Seems confident on TFC's scouting network and coverage.
thanks for the link man!
cbc sports actually has interviews up with all the major guys. they are 100x better than that gol tv crap on tfc tv.
great interviews by nigel..JK is one smart dude.
Just finished watching the press conference and the interviews online, as I was at work when it all went down. All sounds good. Does Winter not know the team's called Toronto FC and not FC Toronto? Also Bob de Clerk, that cat's got style.
Last edited by UltraSuperMegaMo; 01-06-2011 at 11:41 PM.
Why are Daso/Brennan/Cochrane all here still? Wish we just had a full housecleaning happen.
Are these guys going to be given "make work" projects or are they being forced upon the new regime into important roles like Asst GM?
Why the negative attitude against them?
I don't get how getting rid of them is going to help the club long term.
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