Official - Dero on trial with CELTIC

[Blowing Bubbles]

what he said.
larry bird said it the best (about lebron james). something along the lines of:

"if you wanted to win a trophy, you did it with your own team. you didn't join up with a group of superstars. you stayed with your team tried to be the top guy on the top team. it was michael jordan's chicago bulls vs. karl malone's utah jazz. or hakeem olajuwon's rockets. you stayed with your team for 10+ years. it's not like that anymore."

Easy for Larry Bird to get all high and mighty when he played on a team that had 6 future Hall of Famers.

Good for him that he won the luck lottery in the days of playing your whole career with 1 team and actually ended up on a stacked team.

I wonder if he'd say the same thing if he was the only star player on Boston all through the 80's and LA won 10 titles in a row and he retired as a player who had the stigma of "never won a championship"

The old school pro's who played on stacked teams and then bitch about the modern athlete are mega hypocrites.

[Waggy]

At this point I don't think it's good business even if MLS would allow it (which I think they would have a concern with it although I think a much less problem today than they would have say 2 years ago.)

If I am going to be honest with regards to what is best for this team and even what is best for DeRo, I think a trade elsewhere (San Jose a very good possibility) is necessary. Then let San Jose deal with the contract negotiation which I think is possible considering the return of the prodigal son. We get cap room by offloading a contract, the drama surrounding the poisoned relationship between DeRo and the Front Office goes away and we get a fresh start. Hopefully DeRo gets a satisfactory contract from San Jose, maybe an extension providing him financial stability and everyone moves forward.

And we struggle to make the playoffs while San Jose pushes for an appearance in the finals.

By the way, yeah you're not going to convince me if you pick and choose facts (or avoid answering a question when it doesnt suit your point). Because I am just going to offer the counter point of view. Is that not proper debating?

Ya I completely agree with that. It'd be funny if we got Cronin back as part of the deal. I for one would love to see it, it was a shame we moved him last year.

[Waggy]

The final two years are options, if they decline the 3rd year the 4th year is also (obviously) voided. I think that would make him a free agent, but they could have a new contract for him ready to sign on the spot, even making him signing the new contract the condition of them declining their option.

I mean the precedent of having a star player take off for a foreign country without the clubs permission to pressure them into signing a new deal. Not the renegotiation in general, obviously anyone can renegotiate any contract any time, even without the opt out clauses. Imagine if Beckham showed up one morning at AC Milan training and the Galaxy and the MLS didn't know about it. They'd go into cardiac arrest.

[Roogsy]

if he hadnt acted the way he has as of recent (cheque celebration, sodding off to glasgow) id agree with you on resigning DeRo as a DP regardless of his age

That's my only point about his age. To me, it's not an issue. He is in great shape period. It's a red herring to be worried so much about someone who just had a career year that followed a career year. Age is always a concern, but it should be a concern at any point! Is he too young and require development? Is he too old for a very long contract? Etc. I am not saying 32 is a pubescently young age, he has miles on him. But this intense focus on his age is more of a misdirection than a real concern with any real basis considering how well he has taken care of himself.

Everything else of course is valid. With all the damage being done to reputations, and the rebuilding stage we are currently in, should we have him around or capitalize on his form to try to generate an advantageous trade? Certainly an option TFC should look at.

[Roogsy]

Odds are odds and they are stacked against him. I'm not willing to take that risk. You are.

Exactly. Based on form and evidence. By your rationale, we would have passed on a 32 year old Angel who would have provided 58 goals in 3 years. We would have passed on a Valderrama, Beckham, Schelotto or Moreno. We would pass players that after 32 had sterling years and helped their clubs to success beyond their wildest dreams.

Age should be an issue to consider, I am not denying it. But you are relying entirely too much on age and not sufficiently enough on form and impact. You can't quantify the odds so you make them sound enormous.

In the meantime, this team signs Mista to a million dollar contract and we barely say boo. Go figure. In fact, after his first game, I specifically raise the concern of his conditioning and was shot down on this board and was told to give him "time" to get into shape. Wow... just wow.

[CretanBull]

I mean the precedent of having a star player take off for a foreign country without the clubs permission to pressure them into signing a new deal. Not the renegotiation in general, obviously anyone can renegotiate any contract any time, even without the opt out clauses. Imagine if Beckham showed up one morning at AC Milan training and the Galaxy and the MLS didn't know about it. They'd go into cardiac arrest.

I don't believe that TFC didn't know about it. The idea of DeRo going to Celtic first surfaced here at least two weeks ago, I don't believe that we knew about it and they were completely in the dark about it.

If he showed up at some club in France or Germany I would have been surprised, but the Celtic rumour had been out there for awhile.

[Roogsy]

I don't believe that TFC didn't know about it. The idea of DeRo going to Celtic first surfaced here at least two weeks ago, I don't believe that we knew about it and they were completely in the dark about it.

If he showed up at some club in France or Germany I would have been surprised, but the Celtic rumour had been out there for awhile.

*touches nose*

[Darlofletch]

well this thread is now over 1,000 posts, and still going strong. and still interesting as well. well done all.

[Waggy]

I don't believe that TFC didn't know about it. The idea of DeRo going to Celtic first surfaced here at least two weeks ago, I don't believe that we knew about it and they were completely in the dark about it.

If he showed up at some club in France or Germany I would have been surprised, but the Celtic rumour had been out there for awhile.

I'm not saying they hadn't been asked, but without granting permission (which clearly they didn't, since the Scottish paper reported that just now Celtic had received that permission. Besides the fact that they pulled him from training is evidence enough Celtic didn't have the proper paperwork/legalities tied up) TFC obviously wouldn't be expecting their captain to show up at another clubs training facility.


Edit: http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/...ddie-1.1077186
"The administrative issue which threatened to halt Dwayne De Rosario’s trial has now been amicably resolved."

[CretanBull]

It was first posted on our boards on December 12th, 18 days ago. Which would have been roughly a week and half after DeRo spoke to Earl about going on trial somewhere else. During that time not one person in TFC's front office heard about this? I don't believe it. They're either feigning ignorance or far more incompetent that I ever imagined...and I don't think that's even possible.

[CretanBull]

I'm not saying they hadn't been asked, but without granting permission (which clearly they didn't, since the Scottish paper reported that just now Celtic had received that permission. Besides the fact that they pulled him from training is evidence enough Celtic didn't have the proper paperwork/legalities tied up) TFC obviously wouldn't be expecting their captain to show up at another clubs training facility.

From the previous page:

No paperwork, but not necessarily no permission - or not necessarily that it was understood that paper work was needed if permission had be granted, or no paperwork if it was training and not trialing etc. DeRo's contract for 2011 is an option year for the club, if they haven't exercised that option is he even under contract with TFC?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The final two years are options, if they decline the 3rd year the 4th year is also (obviously) voided. I think that would make him a free agent, but they could have a new contract for him ready to sign on the spot, even making him signing the new contract the condition of them declining their option.

if im not mistaken MLS has to agree to this as its with them that he signs the contract, not MLSE/TFC

[Roogsy]

It was first posted on our boards on December 12th, 18 days ago. Which would have been roughly a week and half after DeRo spoke to Earl about going on trial somewhere else. During that time not one person in TFC's front office heard about this? I don't believe it. They're either feigning ignorance or far more incompetent that I ever imagined...and I don't think that's even possible.

I will add to the mystery. I am aware first-hand of the fact that it's not like DeRo's agent called once on this and then never called back. DeRo's camp has consistently tried to get in contact with the TFC front office over several weeks without reply. This whole "they called us 3 weeks ago and we haven't heard anything since" is complete bullshit. In the meantime, the rumours were there for anyone in the FO to investigate...and yet never did?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Everything else of course is valid. With all the damage being done to reputations, and the rebuilding stage we are currently in, should we have him around or capitalize on his form to try to generate an advantageous trade? Certainly an option TFC should look at.

curious to see if anyone will want him and whether MLS will allow for him to sign to yet another high end contract

[Parkdale]

*touches nose*

that's gotta stop. I've seen that like 10 times from you in the last few days.

[Roogsy]

From the previous page:

No paperwork, but not necessarily no permission - or not necessarily that it was understood that paper work was needed if permission had be granted, or no paperwork if it was training and not trialing etc. DeRo's contract for 2011 is an option year for the club, if they haven't exercised that option is he even under contract with TFC?

Here's another gem for you. Not only have they not responded to requests to renegotiate, they haven't even told him if they are enforcing the option on his contract.

Who here works under such uncertainty?

[Roogsy]

that's gotta stop. I've seen that like 10 times from you in the last few days.

It's itchy.

[Parkdale]

It's itchy.

get outta Studio54 you party monster

[CretanBull]

if im not mistaken MLS has to agree to this as its with them that he signs the contract, not MLSE/TFC

I could be wrong, but I think the league just owns the contracts, but leaves the negotiations to the teams...essentially the accept any contract between the team and player that doesn't violate the rules of the league.

[Roogsy]

And Montero's new DP contract has created a precedent where existing MLS players can have their contracts upgraded to DP status without objection from the league. The union would have a real problem if the league decided to shoot down a DP contract for another player (regardless of who it is DeRo or others) considering the precedent set in Seattle.

[Waggy]

From the previous page:

No paperwork, but not necessarily no permission - or not necessarily that it was understood that paper work was needed if permission had be granted, or no paperwork if it was training and not trialing etc. DeRo's contract for 2011 is an option year for the club, if they haven't exercised that option is he even under contract with TFC?

Paperwork would obviously be needed, if for nothing else than insurance purposes. But that is an interesting question. I assumed TFC had already picked up the 2011 option (? Roogsy, any insight here?). If not then I'd imagine he would technically be a free agent at midnight tomorrow. If Dero walks away from the club for NOTHING, then MLSE looks as bad as Dero in this whole mess. Believe me, I'm not absolving MLSE of blame here (I forget the thread yest but I absolutely went OFF on them somewhere- called for Leafs/Raps/TFC fans to unite and protest at a Raps game).

For an analogy, this reminds me of how kids play their parents against each other (a trick I am VERY familiar with). Scenario: Dero went to his dad to ask if he could go out with his friends for the weekend. His dad said no because he had homework due and the teacher called last month about his work. Dero called his mom to ask the same question, she said maybe but she'd have to talk to his dad to figure out some conditions first. Then off he went. Well, the parents 'knew' where he went when they realized he was gone but still hadn't allowed him to go. And they still didn't know he went anywhere until they called him for dinner and he wasn't there. It's not the minor semantic difference you're making it out to be.

[__wowza]

Easy for Larry Bird to get all high and mighty when he played on a team that had 6 future Hall of Famers.

Good for him that he won the luck lottery in the days of playing your whole career with 1 team and actually ended up on a stacked team.

I wonder if he'd say the same thing if he was the only star player on Boston all through the 80's and LA won 10 titles in a row and he retired as a player who had the stigma of "never won a championship"

The old school pro's who played on stacked teams and then bitch about the modern athlete are mega hypocrites.

that's right, it's easy to attack the speaker and not the point. when you consider him being on a "winning" team, consider the fact that he only won 3 titles in his 23 years with the team. what he meant by that was that you can associate specific players with specific teams from that era, they all just happened to be the faces of the franchise.

Hakeem Olajuwon: played for houston for 17 years (1 in toronto)
Patrick Ewing: played for new york for 15 (never won a title)
Karl Malone: played for utah for 18 years (never won a title)

Former NBA players criticized his decision to not stay with Cleveland and continuing to try to win a championship as "the guy".[120] Michael JordanMagic Johnson and Larry Bird to play on one team together, as "I wanted to defeat those guys." Jordan added that "...things are different [now]. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today."[121] Johnson echoed Jordan's sentiments on teaming with rivals.[122] stated that he would not have contacted his rivals from other teams like

[CretanBull]

Paperwork would obviously be needed, if for nothing else than insurance purposes.

Apparently its not needed for working out or training, but is needed for a trial. Working out/training is an accepted part of an athlete's off-season regiment and regardless of who he's doing it with he's covered by his insurance. A trial is considered to be more rigorous, more game-like conditions, and insurance & paperwork become necessary.

[Chevy]

Here's another gem for you. Not only have they not responded to requests to renegotiate, they haven't even told him if they are enforcing the option on his contract.

Who here works under such uncertainty?

I think that's what's called a HINT.

[Waggy]

Apparently its not needed for working out or training, but is needed for a trial. Working out/training is an accepted part of an athlete's off-season regiment and regardless of who he's doing it with he's covered by his insurance. A trial is considered to be more rigorous, more game-like conditions, and insurance & paperwork become necessary.

I'm not really familiar with the differences in fifa language, I'll take a look into it after work. As (almost) always, good discussion guys

[Section 117]

And Montero's new DP contract has created a precedent where existing MLS players can have their contracts upgraded to DP status without objection from the league. The union would have a real problem if the league decided to shoot down a DP contract for another player (regardless of who it is DeRo or others) considering the precedent set in Seattle.

You are wrong Roogsy Monetro was on loan for the last two years, his contract was not done by Seattle or MLS until he was made a DP. So that shoots down the logic of precdence as he was not an MLS "property" prior.

They declined giving Cooper from Dallas DP money, there is no way they will give it to Dero especially after the shit that has gone down the past 9 months

[trane]

That is football.

I am shocked that nobody sees that.

Look at Kaka and his move, Ronaldo too. They were all messy and I didnt see many people dumping all over their respective teams for the same reasons as we are here.

Is our front office in a state of repair after a damaging four years of Mo?

Yup.

I fail to see the point in laying blame on either side, this is way football negotiations work like it or leave it.

Everyone dumped on Berlusconi for the move. Kaka did not initiated it was initiated by Man City, offering that huge sum, and Berlusconi saying that he would consider it if Kaka accepted it, which in turn made Kaka understand that despite his loyalty to the badge, the owner of the badge had a price, and hence the ensuing negotiations with Real. Berlusconi has been under pressure for this, and only this year with the signing of Ibra, Robinho and Boateng. The supporters groups were very vocal in opposition to all of this.

Ronaldo was a different situation he wanted to go, and at the end man u did what it could for its own team.

Same here , if De Ro wants to play for what it world terms is a big club, then trying to stop him will be counterproductive and the club has to make the best of it. However, the club can be critizised in that they have hardly created an enviorment in which a player with options would want to stay.

[Roogsy]

You are wrong Roogsy Monetro was on loan for the last two years, his contract was not done by Seattle or MLS until he was made a DP. So that shoots down the logic of precdence as he was not an MLS "property" prior.

They declined giving Cooper from Dallas DP money, there is no way they will give it to Dero especially after the shit that has gone down the past 9 months

Hmmm...on this one I am going to say you're probably right. I knew his first season from Deportivo Cali was a loan but I would have thought for 2010 that he was on a MLS contract.

Nix that then. There may not be a precedent then and MLS might still negate any existing player upgrading to a DP contract.

[Oblio2]

I have no problem if he wants to go...Say you want out.
Can you imagine the ***t-storm if C.Ronaldo would have trained with Madrid before he even asked for a transfer?
Wow.....

[Beach_Red]

I'm not saying they hadn't been asked, but without granting permission (which clearly they didn't, since the Scottish paper reported that just now Celtic had received that permission. Besides the fact that they pulled him from training is evidence enough Celtic didn't have the proper paperwork/legalities tied up) TFC obviously wouldn't be expecting their captain to show up at another clubs training facility.


Edit: http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/...ddie-1.1077186
"The administrative issue which threatened to halt Dwayne De Rosario’s trial has now been amicably resolved."

Why not? Isn't that what we should be worried about? Why wouuld the team make the decision to not let him go to Celtic? How does not letting him go make the team better?

All we really care about is that our team gets better and this decisions doesn't seem to be doing that. Was their reason personal? Are they letting personal feelings get in the way of making the team better? How will they decide in the future about players who get an opportunity like this?

We've complained for years at the way TFC treats players and this seems like another in a long line of that kind of thing. Why?