funny how a guy who has never followed tfc or the mls for that matter comes on here and is telling all of us who follow TFC that we are wrong...hyprocritical abit?Originally Posted by amc
funny how a guy who has never followed tfc or the mls for that matter comes on here and is telling all of us who follow TFC that we are wrong...hyprocritical abit?
I'm not sure of the truth of this, but I know someone in the media who is pursuing a story that would explain it. At the root of it is a "misunderstanding" (possibly intentional) between the differences of being on trial with a club and training with a club. A player can workout or train with whoever he wants needing only informal permission, no paperwork, no extra insurance etc. A player who is on trial needs a more official permission, with paper work, added insurance etc.
It seems as if DeRo got - or thought that he got - open ended permission to train with others, it just became an issue when the 'others' turned out to be a team that was interested in him, it was a trial that was being called a training session. Celtic pulled the plug when the story began to unravel. I'm not sure if they're complicite in things or victims themselves.
My friend who's writing this has what he needs from one side and is awaiting (I think like a lot of people) to hear from DeRo and/or his agent.
^ I agree that Celtic pulling DeRo has nothing to do with impropriety as much as they did not want to feed the fire of this story and wanted to cooperate with another football club and their indignance over the matter. I'd disagree that there is some sinister to discern from their action in that regard.
can't disagree with your whole post,..if Earl wasn't embarrassed why not just smooth everything over send over the paperwork, like a experienced mgr would,...then if DeRo is wrong let him hang himself.......I think egos are exploding here on both sides, and Earl's nice guy or inexperience whatever, has caught him up......at the worst possible moment,....any experienced mgr would have seen this coming, or at least immediately reacted and taken a protective stance..with the future operations in mind. Only in Canada you say...pity lol...another night of reading a zillion posts going nowhere....my bad,,..how bad can it get?..OMG....at least Raps played their hearts out last night.......had to end on a better note
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
Forget the "permission" or train vs trial.
The Pro-DeRo camp will never see fact. If DeRo's intention is to train then he supposedly doesn't need paperwork so just go ahead and train already... if 1 week of "training" is worth all this shit splattered on your reputation.
Facts are, legal advice on all sides has stopped this trial. Celtic clearly were in this to "get a look at the player", that isn't training. They talked openly about the possibility of signing.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. The player needs to move on.
From a league perspective, this "model" for future MLS franchises has cast a stink over the crowning jewel in the MLS marketing bag... a star player from a developmental league earning a trial in Europe. This, after smearing the MLS Cup with protest and controversy... and the lowest ratings ever. But I digress, back to DeRo.
A few fans say we'll never replace a DeRo but what I can't understand is why they can't grasp the simple of concept of aging.
We may never find a goal scorer that could replace what DeRo accomplished at the age of 30 or 31. That's debatable but hey, a fair point.
But DeRo turns 33 at the 1/3 mark of this coming season. Will a 33 year old Dero be able to replicate (or better) what a 30 year old DeRo did? That's what we have in front of us.
Seems to me we are looking to replace a historical achievement not necessarily the promise of present day, guaranteed, production.
Last edited by Pookie; 12-30-2010 at 07:51 AM.
Rudi, well written article.
Reminds me of:
It depends on what the meaning of Cheating is
Last edited by FluSH; 12-30-2010 at 08:07 AM.
Before this season, the average age of a MLS MVP was 34 (Ferreira is 31, so its dropped slightly). Thats not the average age of a serviceable player, or bench player, or starter, or good player...thats the average age of the best player in the entire league. In the past two seasons, DeRo has been without question the best player in a TFC uniform and has been named as one of the league's best XI. Had it not been for a slow summer month, DeRo would have been a strong candidate for league MVP.
Its not as if we'd be rewarding him now for things that he accomplished when he was 25...we're talking about his current form, not "historical achievement".
There's also the issue of righting a wrong and restoring our reputation among players. Players talk to each other. How many times have people here wondered why a player choses another market over us? People are constantly saying what a great city we have, what a great fan base we have, yet they sign elsewhere. When Sturgis was traded here people moaned about his lack of enthusiasm. From a player's perspective, when they see a club that isn't willing to reward its top player, one of the best players in the league, they aren't all that thrilled about coming here. Right now our front office has a reputation for being dishonest and not living up to the promises it makes. We've gotten rid of Mo, but if we continue opperating the same way then we haven't gained anything.
You've said that the "pro-DeRo" will never see the facts. I think that you're wrong about that. People aren't in denial about the individual facts, they're looking at the whole story, and not limiting their view to this one chapter.
No one can defend the check-writing incident, or this Celtic episode (if, when the whole story is revealed it shows that DeRo is in the wrong) but lets put it in its proper context. For whatever bone headed things DeRo has done, at the end of the day he's still an aggrieved party. The people who are ready to lynch him don't want to accept the facts for what they are, they want everything to be black and white - DeRo isn't judged fairly, he's judged as one of many greedy prima donna pro athletes - unfortunately, DeRo's time at TFC isn't that simple, its not black and white, its all shades of grey.
It reminds me of something more recent...two days ago when Earl made the distinction between not recieving anything "official" from DeRo's camp, but failing to admit the informal discussion that they'd had.Reminds me of:
It depends on what the meaning of Cheating is
In any event, its not my point of view, I'm just putting it out there that I know someone in the media who is exploring this angle.
Moderator
To me it sounds like Celtic just wants to error on the side of caution and stay out of the mess for the moment. I don't think it should be taken as proof of any wrong-doing.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Great analogy!Reminds me of:
It depends on what the meaning of Cheating is
In all seriousness though, there is a realistic chance that DeRo will not sign with Celtic as a result of this public relations nightmare. In that event, it would appear as though there is little chance of reconciliation, which would likely force TFC to trade DeRo's rights to another MLS club (from a position of weakness no less). In that scenario, we lose our best player for a middling draft pick at best.
Part of me wants DeRo to clarify this misunderstanding to the media/public so that if he doesn't earn a roster spot with Celtic, he can return to TFC and honor his contract. At the very least, the situation can blow over and if the next GM wants to deal his rights, he can do so at a later time from a better bargaining position without a sense of desperation...
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 12-30-2010 at 08:57 AM.
Ths is a capped league. .
Id rather see soem sort fo QUALITY on teh pitch , then more MLSE pocket lining.
dont care where he WANTS to be, I want him here.
he is the besta player we have, lets not forget that amidts our hurt and juvenille feelings.
seriously, we should all want him, or anyone that can get results and stop fucking whining about this and that.
he wins games. he scores goals. . who cares what he thinks or wants?
pay him whatever, I dont care, you shouldnt care, he is worth it, every penny.
fucking pay up.
When I see pictures of JDGS fuckin Orange LAMBO it angers me. . .
in summation: stop crying. . and.. . . possibly. . stop caring. .
NOTICE: Wager with STB: OVER 2 shots on goal in the First half wins a Pint at HT.
from Celtic Boss Neil Lennon:
Lennon will also continue to monitor Dwayne De Rosario after his club, Toronto FC, and Major League Soccer claimed they had not authorised the Canada international to train with the Parkhead club.
The former Celtic skipper said: "I think it was an administrative problem but that has been resolved so he can carry on.''
Agree. While nobody knows....
I believe that the correct default position is that some sort of permission was given by MLS to Dero/Celtic, but that MLS thought they had checked with TFC, or decided not to check.
Cochrane then made the situation far worse when his instinct was to give a blanket denial to even the concept of of a Dero trial, seemingly without even bothering to call Dero or someone at MLS or Celtic to check (the holidays are not an excuse, teams and leagues are fully staffed over the holidays in every sport).
The thing became a huge embarassment to MLS when, a few hours later, Dero hit the pitch in Glasgow. This is the moment where Dero really put TFC mgmt to the sword. He was probably the only person in the Glasgow who knew that TFC had formally denied even the possibility of his stepping on the field. So he could have held off. Most people in his position would have. But I guess he doesn't care too much about whether Cochrane or Anselmi look foolish or not.
(I'm certain Dero would deny that he knew about the first Cochrane statement before stepping on the pitch. He would have to say that. But you'd have to decide for yourself what the odds are that someone texted or emailed him that TFC release. I'd say those odds are pretty high.)
There was a lot of tortured syntax in the TFC and MLS press releases. But, importantly, Dero wasn't told to come home. Celtic are bit actors in this, they just drew back once they realized MLS had a problem with the whole thing.
What this episode says about the league's view of TFC and/or Cochrane, is pretty interesting.
Last edited by ensco; 12-30-2010 at 09:17 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
AMEN!
The only people cause drama are the people on these boards.
Roogs, I am with you on everything you said last page.
DeRo is the most likely LARGEST cause of the locker-room discord that we hear about all of the time.
He may be our currently most skilled player, but I'd rather clear the decks and have a balanced, well functioning TEAM, especially as he still has sale value right now.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
There are few issues with the locker room even at this point in time. People getting paid too much and not giving 100%. Jealousy from other players feeling they are under paid.
That being said a strong leadership core would easily straighten the majority of the issues, problem is TFC tossed the only players that had the leadership abilities and left the people who are casuing the issues to provide the leasderhsip or lack there of with this squad
This sums it up perfectly. Well done.
If I was also an underpaid player I would love the fact that De Rosario is out there trying to get more money. It sets a nice precedent.
what he said.
larry bird said it the best (about lebron james). something along the lines of:
"if you wanted to win a trophy, you did it with your own team. you didn't join up with a group of superstars. you stayed with your team tried to be the top guy on the top team. it was michael jordan's chicago bulls vs. karl malone's utah jazz. or hakeem olajuwon's rockets. you stayed with your team for 10+ years. it's not like that anymore."
Does the league have a policy on these kind of trials? It really seems like there could have been no downside for TFC to allow one of their players to take this trip to Glasgow, it could have only been positive for the team - unless the decision was personal, which is worrying for followers if that's how decisions are being made.
In the future more TFC players are going to get these kinds of opportunities, how will they be treated?
let's go with that..... and say that DeRo is a negative factor in the locker room.
now let's ask why!
why? because he's a) getting paid less than other players, but doing way more b) still burning from Mo's false promises c) a championship winning player who's on a near-hopeless team.
sure we can say that he's got an attitude problem - but the question is 'what can we do to keep from souring future players'.
The problem IS NOT that our hand is feeling pain, the problem IS that our hand is in the fire. Follow?
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I'm going to do the ever so popular and refer to a source here, but its not only about the money, its about security. He didn't sign a 4 year deal as many people have said. He signed a 2 year deal with 2, 1 year club options.
He can't get salary insurance on an optional year.
So, if TFC exercise their option for this year and he has a career ending injury his insurance will cover his salary for this year, and he's SOL for the next year.
If the final two years of his contract were guaranteed and he got a career ending injury this year, his insurance would cover his salary for this year & next year.
I am sick of this whole Dero thing, I wish it all goes away. I don't want to go into the new year with all of this negativity surrounding our club.
FYI - this was confirmed by DeRo himself.
But, the money he's making isn't shabby...it's not like he's in the poorhouse and on $48k a year.
but also ask why that same was true in San Jose & Houston? ... he was openly upset with his pay in both places as well
When is the deadline for the club picking up his option for 2011?
To be clear, he does want more money but there's also a side issue of even his current contract being made up of optional years and not guaranteed years. As a pro athlete, he basically has to make enough money now to last him a life time. He's entering the final stage of his career - there won't/can't be a next contract if he gets hurt - and wants the security of insurance.
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