But what if they want to keep him?Originally Posted by Roogsy
They might lose some return on DeRo if he sulks. But if he sulks, he'll get chewed alive by the fans.
If the team doesn't want to let him go, as they feel he is better off on their team, now the player has no power.
That is a judgement call by the team. If they think bringing DeRo back in and not renegotiating his contract (therefore having an unhappy player all year long) is worth it...then by all means go right ahead. That is perfectly within their rights. Just the same he is rightfully entitled to take measures to leverage a better contract either by finding a buyer for his services at a higher price that will require TFC to answer inquiries about their player (like he has tried to do with Celtic) or by using media to his advantage and making sure everyone knows that he is unhappy. Which is what he has done and you guys have chided him for doing. That is HIS prerogative.
There is an easy solution in all of this but that ball as you rightly point out, is in TFC's court. Pay the man better and put this behind everyone or not and face another year of whatever consequences befall that decision. (ie. drama)
He wasn't responsible. The whole team was responsible.
But on the flipside, some give him all the glory when the team won the Voyageurs Cup in '09. You do that, people are going to pin the blame on you when things don't go well.
I'm still waiting for examples from NA sports when a team renegotiated a raise for a player mid-term. And please no examples of when a player is entering the last year of his contract. That's a different scenario altogether.Or that contracts are never renegotiated mid-term.
Last edited by Whoop; 01-24-2011 at 06:49 PM.
Yeah, but that makes him appear petulant and he (and his supporters) shouldn't be shocked when supporters respond in kind.
So on the flipside, you could argue that the ball is in DeRo's court in that he should honour the last two years of his contract and when the time comes he can then give TFC the bird and go elsewhere.
That still leaves TFC with the advantage, meaning it is not truly in his court. Waiting for the end of the full life of the contract is not the only nor best time to use your leverage. His agent would be a fool to take this line of attack.
As for appearing petulant...perhaps that may be the case with some. But not all. And in the end, whether he comes across as petulant or as a mother theresa, what your opinion of him is does not have any tangible benefits to him so a bit of reality here might be in order.
Last edited by Roogsy; 01-24-2011 at 06:58 PM.
He can inject as much drama as he wants, but if it hurts the team, you know how the fan base will react. Tricked or not, he signed a contract.
Moderator
Contracted MLS players have the right to go out and court offers from other teams, to use as leverage to force a contract re-negotiation?
In other sports leages, so much as talking to a player under contract can be cause for a grievance to be filed with the league for tampering (unless the team allows it). Is MLS different?
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
If MLS players were allowed to negotiate at will with other clubs, something tells me a lot of the $50k guys would be pulling MeRo's left and right.
Reality is I really don't care.
But when you wonder why you aren't beloved you have to look back at your actions.
So again, when people say "I can't understand why fans don't him more love", then you have the answer.
Sort of. There is that cliché that people love a winner. Well we have a winner among us and we don't like him because he writes imaginary cheques. Go figure. The Toronto sports fan is a strange animal that I won't pretend to try to understand. In my opinion, the reasons I have seen for poeple not "liking" him border on the high school-ish. He seems to be a dose of reality against that the romanticism of a professional athlete and people don't seem to want to see that reality. They'd rather pretend humble guys like Gargan are better for their team. Gargan is a nice guy to have as a beer buddy...he's not the guy I want starting for my team. Maybe I am more cutthroat than the rest of you but to me, I want a winner. You seem to want someone to date or something.
Sure it does. He seemed to genuinely appreciate the love he was getting from the fans before all this shit happend. He even said it ment a lot to him. And more importantly, what's he going to do after soccer for work? Wouldn't it be beneficial for him to be seen as a beloved figure when looking for a job in this sport or a selfish, money grubbing whiner? What about the parties he's always throwing that he asks people to come to? Would people be more inclined to party with a decent guy or a cunt?
Yes... that is the only reason we are getting tired of him... because he writes imaginary cheques....
Last edited by Brooker; 01-24-2011 at 11:42 PM.
^
DeRo's actions have hurt the team. It really isn't fitting for a real leader (could you, for example, ever see a Robbo doing this sort of thing?) which as captain DeRo supposedly is.
Does he have a "right" to do his own thing? Sure he does. But if the fanbase turns on him and DeRo Entertainment sinks, he'll only have himself to blame. If the coaching team decides that someone with more leadership qualities should be captain, we'll know at least some of the reasons why. Right now, it looks as if they are going to give him something (which they probably would have anyway), but not all that he wants. How he reacts will be crucial. If he's not going to give it 100%, he'll need to be gone.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
I will be honest. I am really tired of these "if he doens't give 100%" arguments. There is nobody on this team that gave more on the pitch than DeRo these last two seasons despite waiting for resolution the whole time about his contract, especially in the 2nd season...you know...the one where he scored half of this team's goals? No one else gave more on the pitch. Not everyone's favourites of Brennan or Gargan or Nana or Cann. The boy left it on the pitch every single game and because he has complained about his contract you seem to think it's ok to question his commitment going forward? It just seems like a cheap shot because you don't like the guy, not because you have any substantive proof that he has ever done anything less than give his all.
The truth is it's kind of annoying. I think I am done with this thread and all of the hurt feelings I see around here. Get the sand out of vaginas guys and demand a winner, not some pink fluffy team that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Moderator
Don't quit this thread without answering my question!
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
If any TFC fan wants to question the commitment of a player who fucks off to Scotland without telling anybody about it, I can't blame them.
Yeah but there are winners out there that are nice guys. LOL
But the point others have made as well is that "bad" guys tend to cause disruptions in the locker room. That's a big issue. "Nice" guys don't tend to cause disruptions, if they do, they're no longer "nice" guys.
I'm not saying he's the cause of any locker reasons but when word is that there are issues in the room - as it's been in the past - people don't look at the "nice" guys.
I won't question his commitment on the pitch. I would agree that for the most part he gives it his all. He might not make the best decisions at times but at least he doesn't have his hands on his hips like Cunningham.
And you can build a winning team with character guys.
So your "reality" is that "winners" can be douchebags as long as they're winners?
Fuck that!
I loved DeRo when he came here. Then I started to watch him play and I fell a little out of love with his game because it seemed rather selfish. It was hard to bitch about because he was scoring a lot. Then I realized that all his scoring was not translating into anything tangible for the team. His teammates seemed to be regressing or stagnating while he was scoring all his goals.
Then came the cheque signing and that was the last straw for me. Not the first.
Nobody is asking for a saint. Dichio was no saint. We just don't want guys who are OBVIOUSLY selfish.
DeRo is selfish in his play and in his attitude in terms of what he thinks he's worth.
Sometimes all the goals in the world can't mask that.
As for wanting a winner...I might have missed it, but when exactly did it seem like DeRo was going to help us to the promised land?
^^ Once again, logic rears its ugly head. Well said!
A segment of supporters don't like DeRo's game, and that is an acceptable opinion. An even larger segment do not approve of his attitude, another very acceptable opinion.
To continuously comment on these groups in a condescending manner, and essentially assume that they are made up of "strange Toronto sports fans" is insulting. I believe that the player and his representatives need a dose of reality, not the supporters.
I think some of us need to come down from the thin air of Mt. Roogsy and get their neurons firing properly.
80 pages....when will this end, i have not slept well since that traitor went to celtic.
and that cheque signing thing...OMG...it has changed me for life.
Haha Way to galvanize us all with a cheap shot. We're supporters with supporters mentality and prerogative. We don't have to write a bibliography of references to prove why we think or feel a certain way. Views are often frustratingly conflicting.
Sidenote- I actually appreciate your difference in POV on this Roogs. The way you know the player is not the way most of us know him so I think that's where it's difficult to share your perspective on events surrounding the player.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
If he stays, as this seems to be the way the wind is blowing, here's how I see it going:
First home game, his name gets announced during the starting line ups with some boos and jeers mixed in with those yelling his last name. His first touch is greeted by a smattering of boos, his second by even less and more cheers to it then people get on with supporting the team.
The best way to put all of it behind him is to play his usual game but keep his head down, stick to his regular celebration when he scores and be the DeRo he's always been on the pitch
roll on 100!
No doubt Wull! 100 pages...100 pages...100 pages!!! As we move!
So the Kelly interview states that the club and DeRo have accepted that his "contract won't be renegotiated...and the club hopes to bring in a second DP (in March)
I can live with that. Can DeRo?
Yeah, just saw the Kelly article.
I guess the story is done.
Until March I guess. LOLBehind the scenes, Toronto FC’s management insists that De Rosario has accepted that his contract will not be renegotiated from its current value, about $500,000 annually. Let’s hope so, since no current player is better suited to Winter’s three-striker system.
Can you add incentives and bonuses without renegotiation? I really can't see this as being the end of it otherwise
I said a few pages ago that understanding the MLS salary cap is like trying to understand women. Just when you think you have it all figured out...
I do think that they could add bonuses without impacting the cap hit as it appears that the cap is only applied to the base salary.
That said, the quote was pretty specific; "... De Rosario has accepted that his contract will not be renegotiated from its current value..."
I see this as a closed door now to the prospect of renegotiation and DeRo getting Designated Player status.
This whole thing could be a closed door if De Rosario has accepted this whole offseason without any hurt pride on his part. That's the tougher question and why I think there is still a bit of an open door to the possibility of a trade.
^ agreed.
I think that DeRo not getting an offer for a permanent transfer for Celtic ("training" or loan deals hardly count) shows him exactly where in the international pecking order he is: a big fish in a small pond. In MLS, he's one of the best "local talents" (and paid like it), but world-wide, players like him are easy to come by. He doesn't even have the draw JDG had (until he was blacklisted), so he can't demand JDG-type wages.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-26-2011 at 08:15 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
My interpretation of the article based on previous statements made by Paul Mariner is that TFC approached the MLS head office regarding a potential renegotiation of DeRo's contract, since the contract is in fact with MLS. MLS refused and TFC has since advised DeRo and his agent of the situation. TFC excercises the club option to retain DeRo this year based on the terms and conditions of his existing contract. DeRo grudgingly accepts the fact that without a European club willing to bid for his services, he has no leverage whatsoever and is legally bound to honor his existing contract.
Aron Winter alluded to having spoken with DeRo and indicated that they have a good relationship. Perhaps as some have suggested, TFC will still give DeRo a moderate raise in the form of a bonus that doesn't count towards the salary cap, which would be ideal in that it still leaves 2 DP slots open for the club moving forward.
I believe you're correct here. Craplumbus is currently trying to add a Non-cap-hit-bonus of some sort to entice Cunty into signing there.
PS - I love the straightforward quote regarding the contract. Something we desperately need at this club.
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