Official - Dero on trial with CELTIC

[Roogsy]

This is really boring, If deRo comes back and performs I will applaud him, If DeRo comes back and is mediocre I will boo him, It's all in DeRo's hands and how much of a professional, he and his agents are at negotiating with TFC. Pretty simple isn't it.
Yes he is a proven goal scorer and game changer, but he is also a proven whiner, If I see DeRo sitting on the pitch sulking behind the play again I will puke.

Sulking behind the play? Really? The man has been unhappy with his contract for 2 years and played like his hair is on fire putting up 2 career seasons and you call that sulking behind the play? It really is becoming clear that you guys really don't want to give him a chance.

DERO get on with it, if you really want out, get the fuck out, If you really want to negotiate and perform for TFC, the supporters and your home town, then get the fuck on with it.

It's the team that needs to get on with it. DeRo has been waiting for them not the other way around. Perhaps you should be sending this message to them.

[Whoop]

I guess DeRo will be waiting a bit longer. Likely after the last two years of his contract are done.

[Roogsy]

I guess DeRo will be waiting a bit longer. Likely after the last two years of his contract are done.

We will see I suppose.

[jloome]

Sorry, I've lost the logic there Roogs.

It's the team that needs to get on with it. DeRo has been waiting for them not the other way around. Perhaps you should be sending this message to them"

If the team doesn't want to renegotiate, and DeRo does, how can it logically be up to the team when he has two years left on the deal?

[Beach_Red]

Sulking behind the play? Really? The man has been unhappy with his contract for 2 years and played like his hair is on fire putting up 2 career seasons and you call that sulking behind the play? It really is becoming clear that you guys really don't want to give him a chance.

It's the team that needs to get on with it. DeRo has been waiting for them not the other way around. Perhaps you should be sending this message to them.

The team knows what it's doing. As you say, for two years they had a player who was unhappy with his contract and they made just the right amount of empty promises to keep him playing well. Of course, it's the player's fault for listening and believing the "door was always open," and that his play would have an effect on a contract coming up to an option year (what is a contract option but a chance for renegotiation). No future player or agent will make the same mistake and give the team the benefit of the doubt.

Who knows if that will affect who will sign here.

[Whoop]

I doubt it will have much effect as Winter/Mariner will just say that was the past regime.

Besides Mo only really dealt with Barry Maclean. LOL

[Roogsy]

Sorry, I've lost the logic there Roogs.



If the team doesn't want to renegotiate, and DeRo does, how can it logically be up to the team when he has two years left on the deal?

It was a response to Derko's comment for DeRo to "get on with it". Since technically, the ball is in TFC's hands, DeRo cannot actually get on with anything himself, he has to wait for TFC's final word. And TFC has not given their final word on the matter, hence the ball is still in their court.

Therefore, it is indeed up to the team. If their final word on the matter is "no renegotiation", then so be it, but give the final word already!

Much of this debacle rests on TFC's unwillingness to put this issue to bed. They stringed DeRo along promising things along the way they have not fulfilled. Was he foolish to believe them? Perhaps, it doesn't change the fact that they kept this issue alive by doing so.

[Whoop]

Maybe Winter and Mariner think it's a non-issue. You have a contract and you need to fulfill it.

In the meantime, we have to clean up Mo's mess and have a more pressing need in that we have to find more players for our lineup.

[jloome]

They stringed DeRo along promising things along the way they have not fulfilled. Was he foolish to believe them? Perhaps, it doesn't change the fact that they kept this issue alive by doing so.

Hmmm. My understanding is that "they" pretty much refers to Mo. So the current regime hasn't really strung anything along except perhaps, as you say, not definitely saying "shut up and play."

I don't imagine that will take long. In fact, that's what I translated "we expect him at training camp" as meaning. That's what it usually means when Euro football types like Winter say it.

[Whoop]

Or any North American manager who has a player on his roster who is contemplating holding out.

[menefreghista]

Hmmm. My understanding is that "they" pretty much refers to Mo. So the current regime hasn't really strung anything along except perhaps, as you say, not definitely saying "shut up and play."

I don't imagine that will take long. In fact, that's what I translated "we expect him at training camp" as meaning. That's what it usually means when Euro football types like Winter say it.

Tom Anselmi mentioned during the town halls that De Rosario's contract would be up for discussion this off season.

So the promises did continue after Mo Johsnton was turfed.

[ManUtd4ever]

Guys, there's really no need for speculation. Aron Winter and Paul Mariner have already confirmed that they intend on keeping DeRo going into this season. Moreover, Paul Mariner stated publicly that he is working with the league to renegotiate DeRo's existing contract to appease him.

The only way DeRo doesn't remain with the club at this point is if he literally forces his way out of town...

[TFC/Everton]

If Dero was a top scorer in the EPL or La Liga, perhaps he could pull this "demand more money" BS, but since he is in a second rate league, he'll just have to man up and honour his contract.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If Dero was a top scorer in the EPL or La Liga, perhaps he could pull this "demand more money" BS, but since he is in a second rate league, he'll just have to man up and honour his contract.

Second rate league has nothing to do with it. He's asking for more money not EPL, La liga top scorer money.

[Beach_Red]

Hmmm. My understanding is that "they" pretty much refers to Mo. So the current regime hasn't really strung anything along except perhaps, as you say, not definitely saying "shut up and play."

I don't imagine that will take long. In fact, that's what I translated "we expect him at training camp" as meaning. That's what it usually means when Euro football types like Winter say it.

No, Anselmi stuck his nose in it, going public and saying they'd be willing to "talk" to DeRo but then not actually doing it. Mo has been an easy scapegoat for MLSE but there's no way they actually gave him any real control (and if they did, whoever was responsible for that decision should be fired, there's no way to justify a guy with so little experience in a position of control, he was never more than a pawn).

It's more complicated because the contract everyone is talking about was structured with option years on top of guaranteed years and that's usually done as a chance to renegotiate - happens all the time. MLSE probably felt as he was getting older DeRo's production would fall off so they could renegotiate down. Didn't work out that way.

I still don't understand why they didn't just let him go on the trial - it would have worked out in TFC's favour when Celtic didn't offer to sign him. Let's hope that was the last mistake of the old regime.

The current regime really should take control of this - and perhaps they have with Winter's statement that DeRo is going to be the, "captain and leader," but we won't really know until things start to go wrong - if the team gets off to a slow start ot ha a mid-season slump or if Winter and Mariner start disagreeing about things.

[Iheartdero]

78 pages of conjecture and speculation from all sides...I'd be impressed if it wasnt all so very unimpressive.

[Roogsy]

No, Anselmi stuck his nose in it, going public and saying they'd be willing to "talk" to DeRo but then not actually doing it. Mo has been an easy scapegoat for MLSE but there's no way they actually gave him any real control (and if they did, whoever was responsible for that decision should be fired, there's no way to justify a guy with so little experience in a position of control, he was never more than a pawn).

It's more complicated because the contract everyone is talking about was structured with option years on top of guaranteed years and that's usually done as a chance to renegotiate - happens all the time. MLSE probably felt as he was getting older DeRo's production would fall off so they could renegotiate down. Didn't work out that way.

I still don't understand why they didn't just let him go on the trial - it would have worked out in TFC's favour when Celtic didn't offer to sign him. Let's hope that was the last mistake of the old regime.

The current regime really should take control of this - and perhaps they have with Winter's statement that DeRo is going to be the, "captain and leader," but we won't really know until things start to go wrong - if the team gets off to a slow start ot ha a mid-season slump or if Winter and Mariner start disagreeing about things.

This.


I should add that I have more confidence that this issue will be sorted out than I did before. Winter and Mariner seem to want to sort things out and all DeRo can ask is that they be willing to do so. What their final agreement will look like I don't know but for now, I don't think DeRo is leaving like I thought might be the case at the end of December.

[ManUtd4ever]

I still don't understand why they didn't just let him go on the trial - it would have worked out in TFC's favour when Celtic didn't offer to sign him. Let's hope that was the last mistake of the old regime.

The current regime really should take control of this - and perhaps they have with Winter's statement that DeRo is going to be the, "captain and leader," but we won't really know until things start to go wrong - if the team gets off to a slow start ot ha a mid-season slump or if Winter and Mariner start disagreeing about things.

TFC did allow him to trial once the paperwork was in place. Aron Winter didn't allow a loan to Celtic because TFC had absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose in such an arrangement. The new regime has in fact taken control of the situation and have done so with class.

[Roogsy]

TFC did allow him to trial once the paperwork was in place. Aron Winter didn't allow a loan to Celtic because TFC had absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose in such an arrangement. The new regime has in fact taken control of the situation and have done so with class.

I would have to agree. DeRo may not like TFC's decision not to loan him out but it was TFC's decision to make and they have done so decisively. Of course, that gives him leverage upon his return to say "ok, you don't want to loan me out then obviously you value my services, let's talk".

And I think they will.

[Suds]

The fact we have heard pretty much nothing from either side recently leads me to believe the new management team has reached out to DeRo. (pure speculation on my part) You often find when two parties agree to talk the first thin they agree on is keeping the talks private until they are resolved. That's a very good thing.

[Oldtimer]

No, Anselmi stuck his nose in it, going public and saying they'd be willing to "talk" to DeRo but then not actually doing it. Mo has been an easy scapegoat for MLSE but there's no way they actually gave him any real control (and if they did, whoever was responsible for that decision should be fired, there's no way to justify a guy with so little experience in a position of control, he was never more than a pawn).

I realize that you hate ML$E, but that is ridiculous. Yes, they gave Mo control... wayyy to much control, because Anselmi & co. know nothing about football (that's why they needed Klinsmann to tell them what to do.).

Now with respect to Anselmi's promise, all he promised was to "talk." No mention of a DP slot for DeRo. We all know that "talk is cheap."

Of course, I expect that DeRo is going to be thrown a bone. How much of a bone remains to be seen.

[Whoop]

It will be interesting to see what happens on Media Day.

[Beach_Red]

I realize that you hate ML$E, but that is ridiculous. Yes, they gave Mo control... wayyy to much control, because Anselmi & co. know nothing about football (that's why they needed Klinsmann to tell them what to do.).

Now with respect to Anselmi's promise, all he promised was to "talk." No mention of a DP slot for DeRo. We all know that "talk is cheap."

Of course, I expect that DeRo is going to be thrown a bone. How much of a bone remains to be seen.

No, I don't hate them. In fact, I have too much respect for them as businessmen to believe they gave that much control to someone with so little experience. That would be too insulting to them. When they hired JFJ to run the Leafs they didn't give him anywhere near total control.

It's not because they don't know the particulars of the strategies of the respective games or the peculiar rules of each league, it's becaue they do know how to manage companies that they didn't hand over the building of an expansion team to a guy with zero budget experience. I think I have more respect for them than you do .

[Oldtimer]

^ interesting idea, but the ML$E board think they know everything about hockey. That interfering has been the bane of the team. That doesn't apply to football.

It's just opinion anyways. I go by Anselmi's statements over the years about not managing the team, but leaving that to Mo. You have reasons to disbelieve that, I'm sure, and I can't prove you wrong (but ML$E's public statements do match what I'm saying).

[Pookie]

It will be interesting to see what happens on Media Day.

True. I find it interesting to think about whether there is any "upside" here for DeRo to return to Toronto. Assume he gets his DP contract, what is life like for him?

Assume he beats the aging odds and performs, will it be a love in or the polite applause that you'd get from a jilted fanbase waiting for him to trip up?

What if his performance suffers a little? Perhaps as a result of age or perhaps by the fact that he must play a system and actually use his teammates.

The media is by and large lined up against him. Put a stretch together like last year June 5th through August 21st and then again through Sept 18th where he doesn't score and this market will have everything it needs to make his time here uncomfortable.

Either way, I'm not sure there is a significant upside for him with all that has happened.

[Pookie]

I agree that "talk" doesn't necessarily mean DP nor does it mean that each side's definition of "raise" is in the same ball park.

[Beach_Red]

^ interesting idea, but the ML$E board think they know everything about hockey. That interfering has been the bane of the team. That doesn't apply to football.

It's just opinion anyways. I go by Anselmi's statements over the years about not managing the team, but leaving that to Mo. You have reasons to disbelieve that, I'm sure, and I can't prove you wrong (but ML$E's public statements do match what I'm saying).

Yeah, but the fun is in deciphering public statements . Not many companies, especially not many private companies, are entirely up front and open in their public statements.

And that's really why we have this mess with DeRo - there were conflicting public statements about what was going on behind the scenes; did he ask for permission, was it granted, was it a paperwork mistake, and so on.

Going forward we're going to appreciate having a sports team that runs at a profit and with fiscal responsibility and plays things close to the vest. It's still going to be frustrating .

[ManUtd4ever]

True. I find it interesting to think about whether there is any "upside" here for DeRo to return to Toronto. Assume he gets his DP contract, what is life like for him?

Assume he beats the aging odds and performs, will it be a love in or the polite applause that you'd get from a jilted fanbase waiting for him to trip up?

What if his performance suffers a little? Perhaps as a result of age or perhaps by the fact that he must play a system and actually use his teammates.

The media is by and large lined up against him. Put a stretch together like last year June 5th through August 21st and then again through Sept 18th where he doesn't score and this market will have everything it needs to make his time here uncomfortable.

Either way, I'm not sure there is a significant upside for him with all that has happened.

DeRo will be given the opportunity to succeed with TFC by the new regime and most likely with a moderate raise. You are correct in that his demands for a renegotiated contract will increase the level of scrutiny surrounding him throughout the course of the season if he falters on the pitch. For his sake and ours, I hope he has a successful season...

[Derko]

Sulking behind the play? Really? The man has been unhappy with his contract for 2 years and played like his hair is on fire putting up 2 career seasons and you call that sulking behind the play? It really is becoming clear that you guys really don't want to give him a chance.



It's the team that needs to get on with it. DeRo has been waiting for them not the other way around. Perhaps you should be sending this message to them.

I already did send an e-mail stating I thought DeRo deserves more to MLSE, Have You?

[Chevy]

TFC did allow him to trial once the paperwork was in place. Aron Winter didn't allow a loan to Celtic because TFC had absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose in such an arrangement. The new regime has in fact taken control of the situation and have done so with class.

+1. Let's also remember that there wasn't any "loan" deal or transfer offer on the table. Celtic merely wanted to extend his training by a few weeks, and the club said no.