There are few issues with the locker room even at this point in time. People getting paid too much and not giving 100%. Jealousy from other players feeling they are under paid.
That being said a strong leadership core would easily straighten the majority of the issues, problem is TFC tossed the only players that had the leadership abilities and left the people who are casuing the issues to provide the leasderhsip or lack there of with this squad
I am sick of this whole Dero thing, I wish it all goes away. I don't want to go into the new year with all of this negativity surrounding our club.
But, the money he's making isn't shabby...it's not like he's in the poorhouse and on $48k a year.
To be clear, he does want more money but there's also a side issue of even his current contract being made up of optional years and not guaranteed years. As a pro athlete, he basically has to make enough money now to last him a life time. He's entering the final stage of his career - there won't/can't be a next contract if he gets hurt - and wants the security of insurance.Originally Posted by Oblio2
When is the deadline for the club picking up his option for 2011?
^ I think when legal teams weigh in on it and all sides agree that the player must stop training until paperwork is signed we can be pretty clear that there was no paperwork.
End of story.
Looking forward to seeing if a non-DeRo led team can actually get into the playoffs.
No paperwork, but not necessarily no permission - or not necessarily that it was understood that paper work was needed if permission had be granted, or no paperwork if it was training and not trialing etc. DeRo's contract for 2011 is an option year for the club, if they haven't exercised that option is he even under contract with TFC?
^ I think this issue was raised particularly when Celtic's manager referred to DeRo's training with them as a "look" at the player. TFC can claim that is what makes this a trial and not training and therefore the papers would need to be filed.
The Brit media seems to have a pretty straightforward take on things.
Celtic says the situation has been resolved. From the Sporting Life web site today:
"[Celtic manager Neil] Lennon will also continue to monitor Dwayne De Rosario after his club, Toronto FC, and Major League Soccer claimed they had not authorised the Canada international to train with the Parkhead club.
The former Celtic skipper said: "I think it was an administrative problem but that has been resolved so he can carry on."
http://www.sportinglife.com/football...&TEAMHD=soccer
BBC Sport claims De Ro is "considering a move" and is "in the middle of a contract dispute" with TFC. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ic/9322943.stm)
Sorry if this is a duplicate post.
^ not sure and I really don't care about the salary. The Cap hit on a DP is less than his hit right now.
The issue for me is the DP slot and how long is his contract. There are only 3 DP slots available. Getting DeRo in one does NOTHING to improve the team. It essentially gives you the status quo... 2 years of missed playoffs. Add in that JDG has the other... well, yeah, there you go. Status quo.
If he is asking for more than 2 years, we are tying up that DP slot in a player that according to the odds and principles of aging, will witness a decline in his skill set. Who wants to be handcuffed to that?
What are we arguing about him "doing again"?
scoring 15 goals a season?
sure, he is more than capable of doing that again.
he is also capable and likely to do the following AGAIN:
-hog the ball
-make nobody around him better
-fail to play within a system
-demand more money
What exactly has the addition of Dero brought TFC....other than the goals?
Answer: a bullshit trophy (ncc) and a whole lot of headaches.
worth 30 goals?
not to me
what a stupid statement that is, he is there to score goals,im sorry if he didnt make peterson,barrett,mista better players.
thats where we disagree
he is paid to do a lot more than score goals. especially being named captain.
he scores....that's undeniable
what is up for debate is whether or not he makes us better.
I thinks it's a wash...at best
there are a lot if negatives that come along with those goals.
I am not going to get in the middle of an argument of what position DeRo plays and what the job of a striker/attacking midfielder/midfielder is. Especially considering TFC has used him all over the place.
However I will point out that he was not brought here to be made captain. His first season he wasn't captain and he didn't start the 2nd season as captain either. In fact, once made captain, TFC went on a tear and had a massive May. Then things fell apart. So arguments can be formulated to argue pretty much anything.
He's a midfielder. He actually IS there to make forwards better. He's not there to score 15 goals. That's a striker's job.
Of course we'll take it. But that wasn't voodoo's point, which is that one player excelling does not make a team better. On occasions, because he is a clutch player, he has pulled out a big game for us. But our offense has to be designed around him because he's a transparently individual player.
So, not a stupid statement.
Pookie, you're doing gods work but you aren't convincing Roogsy, not today, not ever.
Roogs- say TFC does rip up Deros contract now and renegotiate, what do you think MLS will say about that? This would set a horrible precedent for future contract negotiations no? Do you see any way that MLS lets ANY team sign him to a DP contract after this sort of stunt?
At this point I don't think it's good business even if MLS would allow it (which I think they would have a concern with it although I think a much less problem today than they would have say 2 years ago.)
If I am going to be honest with regards to what is best for this team and even what is best for DeRo, I think a trade elsewhere (San Jose a very good possibility) is necessary. Then let San Jose deal with the contract negotiation which I think is possible considering the return of the prodigal son. We get cap room by offloading a contract, the drama surrounding the poisoned relationship between DeRo and the Front Office goes away and we get a fresh start. Hopefully DeRo gets a satisfactory contract from San Jose, maybe an extension providing him financial stability and everyone moves forward.
And we struggle to make the playoffs while San Jose pushes for an appearance in the finals.
By the way, yeah you're not going to convince me if you pick and choose facts (or avoid answering a question when it doesnt suit your point). Because I am just going to offer the counter point of view. Is that not proper debating?
Last edited by Roogsy; 12-30-2010 at 11:38 AM.
The final two years are options, if they decline the 3rd year the 4th year is also (obviously) voided. I think that would make him a free agent, but they could have a new contract for him ready to sign on the spot, even making him signing the new contract the condition of them declining their option.
Not a slant. It's fact.
Just like Christian Gomez who 3 years after getting an MLS All Star award was playing in USSF Division II.
Skills drop and when they do, they drop.
Again, I can't predict the future but I can highlight that the odds of a player continuing to perform into his 30s are stacked heavily against him.
It's a slant when you selectively use facts by picking and choosing what to use to back up your point.
Again, how many goals did Angel score at 34 (actually turned 35 in October), 2 year older than DeRo?
please see 'the keeper as captain' debate for examples of 'slant'
hahaha... I'm going to off-topic
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if he hadnt acted the way he has as of recent (cheque celebration, sodding off to glasgow) id agree with you on resigning DeRo as a DP regardless of his age
That's my only point about his age. To me, it's not an issue. He is in great shape period. It's a red herring to be worried so much about someone who just had a career year that followed a career year. Age is always a concern, but it should be a concern at any point! Is he too young and require development? Is he too old for a very long contract? Etc. I am not saying 32 is a pubescently young age, he has miles on him. But this intense focus on his age is more of a misdirection than a real concern with any real basis considering how well he has taken care of himself.
Everything else of course is valid. With all the damage being done to reputations, and the rebuilding stagewe are currently in, should we have him around or capitalize on his form to try to generate an advantageous trade? Certainly an option TFC should look at.
curious to see if anyone will want him and whether MLS will allow for him to sign to yet another high end contract
Everything else of course is valid. With all the damage being done to reputations, and the rebuilding stage
No idea, clearly you do and will selectively use it to attempt to back up your future prediction that not only will DeRo's point production continue on its current pace but he will outperform any DPs that become available now and over the term of his contract... am I right?
I like how the idea that skills decline with age... as evidenced in freakin' medical journals... is considered a "slant" and selective use of facts... when considering extending significant concessions to a player who is up there in years.
The only counter point to that is apparently, "no they won't because look at his past" or worse "because I say so"
Odds are odds and they are stacked against him. I'm not willing to take that risk. You are.
Exactly. Based on form and evidence. By your rationale, we would have passed on a 32 year old Angel who would have provided 58 goals in 3 years. We would have passed on a Valderrama, Beckham, Schelotto or Moreno. We would pass players that after 32 had sterling years and helped their clubs to success beyond their wildest dreams.
Age should be an issue to consider, I am not denying it. But you are relying entirely too much on age and not sufficiently enough on form and impact. You can't quantify the odds so you make them sound enormous.
In the meantime, this team signs Mista to a million dollar contract and we barely say boo. Go figure. In fact, after his first game, I specifically raise the concern of his conditioning and was shot down on this board and was told to give him "time" to get into shape. Wow... just wow.
Last edited by Roogsy; 12-30-2010 at 11:59 AM.
Funny you'd mention Mista, who is 32Dangers of aging.
I feel like we are arguing without really quantifying what we are arguing about.
I have no issue with DeRo playing out his current contract. It was a 4 year deal given to a 30 year old player. We have realized some offensive output over the first 2 years of that pact and I would expect the offense to continue in some form over the last 2. Probably a decline but who knows.
I might even entertain an optional extension on that 4 year deal, at a lower salary, in order to provide the player with guaranteed income and generate some cap relief while still (hopefully) realizing some offense that remains in the tank.
But because the player is forcing a new contract discussion, I would not entertain a richer, DP deal under any circumstances with this player. Since you mention form and impact, he has had no impact on team success. Zero.
You aren't going to take my DP slot as a zero impact player. Yes, goals went in. And so did missed opportunities as he shot from 40 yards out and managed to hit the hot dog vendors. The team has had no success under his leadership and that isn't worth the most coveted and strategic roster spot that I can give as a Manager in MLS.
From a skill stand point, I am not going to risk being stuck with a DP that is 35-37 (35 if he got a DP on his current deal and 37 if he got an extension) while his offense most likely will decline.
Any talk of a DP contract with this player is a non-starter for me. He doesn't have admirable qualities when it comes to leadership and his skills will decline at some point. Too risky.
But ironically, to appease the fans, one might just sign him to that DP contract and let the Maple Leaf Syndrome take over.
Everyone loves the Status Quo in Toronto. <-- that should be a chant
Last edited by Pookie; 12-30-2010 at 03:42 PM.
fowards???
let me know when we get a couple of wingers and a striker so he can make them better.
Last edited by reggie; 12-30-2010 at 11:35 AM.
well this thread is now over 1,000 posts, and still going strong. and still interesting as well. well done all.
It was first posted on our boards on December 12th, 18 days ago. Which would have been roughly a week and half after DeRo spoke to Earl about going on trial somewhere else. During that time not one person in TFC's front office heard about this? I don't believe it. They're either feigning ignorance or far more incompetent that I ever imagined...and I don't think that's even possible.
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