Official - Dero on trial with CELTIC

[Waggy]

here's a thought - maybe MLSE and the TFC FO should take a look in the mirror and ask themselves Why? all this trouble is going down. Is DeRo 100% to blame, or maybe..... (like every conflict in the history of conflicts) -- there's two sides to the story.

Now for the record, I'm not siding with DeRo here, I'm just saying that TFC's track record doesn't give me much trust in their ability to NOT fuck the whole thing up.

Who cares Parky, like I said yesterday. Even if MLSE is in the wrong (and we dont and wont know yet), we can clearly say right now that Dero is as well. There's more than enough blame/incompetence to go around. And I expect that from MLSE, I don't expect that from the guy who is supposed ot be the leader of this team, a representative of US on the club. Someone from the city. If he was doing nothing wrong, where's his statement "I'm sorry, I meant no disrepect to the club, I thougth I had permission but I was wrong. I'll stay away from Celtic until paperwork is cleared or I will return to Toronto. I appologize to both clubs and fans of both clubs"

[Section 117]

They have been looking for a while now... It just a matter of a few things to get straighten out first before that shoe drops

[Ossington Mental Youth]

gotta say i feel like deros apology for the cheque signing now feels disingenuous. kinda gotta agree with 117 on this too, Earl et all have done nothing wrong in this situation. Should they have rushed or prioritized resigning DeRo? debateably, even then hes acted like a child in running off to Celtic

[Section 117]

Why would Dero apologize for? Obvisously in his eyes his needs are bigger then the clubs and he really doesn't give a rat's ass about what anybody thinks

[ManUtd4ever]

Fuck me, 2 years ago we were all ecstatic over the acquisition of DeRo. Who would have thought that he would put up excellent back to back seasons while simultaneously causing the most controversy by any individual player in TFC's history. Unbelievable...

[Cashcleaner]

I don't know if I totally agree with that

DeRo's contract is entirely MO's mess. He promised Dero the world to get him to Toronto. He told him that he would be the DP of the club. Don't forget that Dero's first contract dispute with TFC took place before he had even donned the red jersey.

I don't blame Earl or TFC for telling Dero they don't think he's worth the treasure chest that Mo promised him.

I said yesterday that this looked like TFC were out to make Dero look like the bad guy, but I don't know if anyone is the bad guy here.

TFC is sticking to their guns on the contract (which I agree with)
Dero is looking for a better opportunity (which I don't blame him for)

Exactly! Both parties want to protect their best interests. Obviously Toronto FC wants a player of his calibre on the team, but possibly not at the price he's asking. DeRo just wants to play and make more money. Both are completely understandable positions, which is why any witch-hunt mentality is useless.

[CretanBull]

Yes, this is it. DeRo is desperate and getting bad advice and TFC is poorly run - they're really made for each other at the moment.

What we've just seen is EXACTLY the kind of thing we saw for the first four years of this team. Right now it looks like nothing has changed at all.

We were at least hoping that the organization had, as they said, "learned" something and maybe they wouldn't be so petty. How is what the team is doing now going to help it get better?

DeRo, no matter what happens, will be gone at some point. Just like Mo is gone, just like at some point Cochrane will be gone - but the team (we hope) will still be here. The team needs to be the "bigger man," and straighten this shit out, not make it worse.

Agreed 100%

[Parkdale]

while simultaneously causing the most controversy by any individual player in TFC's history.....

Kinda makes the whole Ali Gerba fiasco seem like small potatoes now eh?

[Beach_Red]

Honestly really, there is overwhelming evidence that Dero had no paper work and yet it is still TFC fault in yor eyes.

By now it doesn't matter whose fault it was (I think it was a combination of an aggressive agent and an inexperienced GM, put it at 60-40,70-30, whatever you want) we're not teenagers fighting with our girlfriends, we're grown-ups. At least TFC need to be (DeRo can do what he wants, even he was a perfect guy someday he'd be too old to play and would be gone).

So far we haven't seen a change in the way this team is run. Maybe it's too soon, but as Parky said, they knew this situation was simmering, it could have been handled so much better. What's the good of the team sinking to the level of a spoiled player? How does that help?

What matters now is how this is straightened out. Pulling DeRo from training at Celtic lowers his value and he's still under contract to TFC, so it doesn't help TFC.

That's all we want now, someone to be looking out for TFC's best interest and taking a leadership role.

[Wull]

Exactly! Both parties want to protect their best interests. Obviously Toronto FC wants a player of his calibre on the team, but possibly not at the price he's asking. DeRo just wants to play and make more money. Both a completely understandable positions, which is why any witch-hunt mentality is useless.

What witch hunt? He was pulled from training with Celtic because he didn't have the necessary papers. Someone in his camp fucked that part up. End of story. The caveat to it is that the relationship between club and player is now damaged beyond repair and we should get him the necessary paperwork so we can move on from this in the best way possible; adequate compensation for him

[Suds]

By now it doesn't matter whose fault it was (I think it was a combination of an aggressive agent and an inexperienced GM, put it at 60-40,70-30, whatever you want) we're not teenagers fighting with our girlfriends, we're grown-ups. At least TFC need to be (DeRo can do what he wants, even he was a perfect guy someday he'd be too old to play and would be gone).

So far we haven't seen a change in the way this team is run. Maybe it's too soon, but as Parky said, they knew this situation was simmering, it could have been handled so much better. What's the good of the team sinking to the level of a spoiled player? How does that help?

What matters now is how this is straightened out. Pulling DeRo from training at Celtic lowers his value and he's still under contract to TFC, so it doesn't help TFC.

That's all we want now, someone to be looking out for TFC's best interest and taking a leadership role.

have to agree on those points

[Beach_Red]

What witch hunt? He was pulled from training with Celtic because he didn't have the necessary papers. Someone in his camp fucked that part up. End of story. The caveat to it as that the relationship between club and player is now damaged beyond repair

But wouldn't it make more sense for TFC to get him the paperwork and keep him training? He's still under contract, he's either going to play for TFC or get traded - don't we want him to be as valuable as possible as trade bait?

[Wull]

But wouldn't it make more sense for TFC to get him the paperwork and keep him training? He's still under contract, he's either going to play for TFC or get traded - don't we want him to be as valuable as possible as trade bait?

Yes! Problem being is if he keeps training without said paperwork we'd be on the hook if he got injured, not Celtic

[Roogsy]

When Earl stated he is not going on trial with Celtic or any other club he had no permission so why would it matter if his agent came to him a month before saying he might be trialing with "x team". we don't need to know the inner working of the clubs dealing with players.

You're mixing up the statements 117.

The sequence of events goes like this. Some of this I heard it directly from parties involved.

DeRo's agent approaches TFC several times since the end of the season for contract renegotiations. He does not get a response.

Trial opportunities come up. The agent does not get a response for WEEKS. So he goes and gets approval for training. DeRo leaves for Celtic not for a trial, but for training.

Earl, having not approved anything gets blindsided. I agree with the people that say Earl is a stand-up guy, but don't believe for a second that he has been communicative with his own player either. Which is why his statements to Duane Rollins were carefully worded so as to avoid contradiction.

Once the pics of DeRo in training come out, the FO raises a fuss with the MLS and they put a stop to the TRAINING so as to put TRIAL papers in order.

From what I understand of this situation, there are different requirements for a trial as opposed to training. DeRo did not leave with trial papers, but he did not show up empty-handed either. Is this a negotiating play on DeRo's agent's part? I think so. I guess he's decided to play hardball with the TFC front office, probably to get their attention after weeks of being ignored.

This will be up to TFC and MLS to sort out. What I don't get is why we're getting upset over a TFC player training elsewhere and his agent working the system. They're trying to get something done in the vaccuum that is the TFC management heirarchy, a vaccuum that exists only because this team can't get it's shit together.

[Parkdale]

okay, roogsy is here.

I'm going to go grab a coffee and come back to 8+ new pages to read

[Roogsy]

Roogsy should avoid this thread like a plague for the remainder of its lifespan for the BS he was spewing yesterday.

Chevy astutely called him out on his "sources" and it turns out there was absolutley no truth to anything that his "sources" were claiming. Here are the facts:

1. There was no agreement in place for Dero to trial with Celtic Never claimed there was. DeRo's permission was for training.
2. Dero did not receive permission from Toronto FC or MLS to trial with Celtic Again, never said there was.
3. Nobody from MLS or TFC spoke to anyone from Celtic until after the training session yesterday No one ever claimed they did.
4. Dero/management made the decision to trial without consent and tried to spin it as "informal training" once the backlash started and it became clear that he was in the wrong DeRo's management did not ask for a trial. That they are spinning it as "training" did not change from the start.

"Source" this, "unconfirmed report" that, give me a break.

What is happening this morning is exactly what happened yesterday morning. You guys are getting swayed by every piece of news that comes out. Duane Rollins "Cochrane" article comes out. People want to lynch Dwayne. The Star and CBC article come out and people wonder if DeRo had approval and calm down to wait. Rollins comes out with another pro-TFC article correctly stating that there was never any trial agreement from MLS or TFC (which nobody ever claimed, it's a red herring) everyone wants to lynch him again. How about waiting for another response from the other side? I can say for certainty that Dwayne did not leave his home and family until he got a call giving the green light. What else you would expect a player to do I don't know. This is between the agent, MLS and TFC. And this agent is no "First Wave". He is experienced in European club transfers.

[Roogsy]

okay, roogsy is here.

I'm going to go grab a coffee and come back to 8+ new pages to read

Yeah, woke up at 10 again. Ain't Christmas vacations awesome? LOL!

[Wull]

We're upset because he did it without consent of the club. We're upset because this has further tarnished the club's reputation. We're upset because a guy getting paid $400k plus a year is once again putting himself before OUR team.

Why would the club open negotiations with him before a GM and coach are in place? That would be more incompetent than anything we've seen over the last few days.

[Suds]

okay, roogsy is here.

I'm going to go grab a coffee and come back to 8+ new pages to read

this should be good .. I've said my piece so I'm gonna get out of they way

besides, I need another reason to put off painting again today

[Section 117]

Dero's agent is manipulating words IMO. look at what Lennon said we are looking at him and it isn't going to cost Celtic too much if we like him.

He is on trial, which includes training. Celtic pulls him from training why if he is only training with them?? Oh yeah cause it is a trial.

His agent is angling for his 10% as he think he screwed Dero with the contract he signed 2 years ago.

Roogsy - reagrding his contract he signed TFC is under no obligation to re open it or re do it just becauseDero or his agent decides he is under paid. He should have thought of that before he signed his last contract. Oh yeah he did that then too.

[Darlofletch]

we'll propbably never know exactly how ity went down, but both sides definitely have some blame for this.

It's all so sad that it reached this point, it was a perfect story, one of the all time best mls players, a cmnt star, coming back to finish his career by leading his hometown club to glory.

the fans were fully behind him, he could have gone on to be a superstar in this town, and ideally he'd have taken the club with him to at least the playoffs, if not championships, tfc would finally have a better reputation and a base to build from, everyone would make a lot of money, including de ro in his post football career. instead it's ended like this.

It's not surprising really, tfc's shambolic enough to cause drama with some real pros, de ro's a diva enough to cause drama at a well run and successful club like san jose/houston. put the two of them together and we really shouldn't be surprised at any of this.

such a wasted opportunity.

[__wowza]

Why would the club open negotiations with him before a GM and coach are in place? That would be more incompetent than anything we've seen over the last few days.

why would the club release all but 15 of our players and sign nathan sturgis?

why indeed.

[Roogsy]

I don't know if I totally agree with that

DeRo's contract is entirely MO's mess. He promised Dero the world to get him to Toronto. He told him that he would be the DP of the club. Don't forget that Dero's first contract dispute with TFC took place before he had even donned the red jersey.

I don't blame Earl or TFC for telling Dero they don't think he's worth the treasure chest that Mo promised him.

I said yesterday that this looked like TFC were out to make Dero look like the bad guy, but I don't know if anyone is the bad guy here.

TFC is sticking to their guns on the contract (which I agree with)
Dero is looking for a better opportunity (which I don't blame him for)

I told Rooney yesterday, this is two sides with big egos on the line duking it out and the fans got caught in the crossfire.

If people don't like DeRo is not something surprising given everything that has happened. But letting TFC off the hook is the part that bothers me. It's their mismanagement, their disrespect and their avoidance that caused this whole issue to blow up.

There are certain fundamental activities that are necessary for a front office when dealing with your professional athletes. Responding to messages is one of them. I have witnessed first-hand (not just with DeRo) the frustrating experience it is to try to get a TFC staffer to respond back. When you treat your franchise player that way, you don't expect problems?

So blame DeRo, blame his agent, I can totally understand that. But if that's the case, TFC shares in the blame as well. These are two former spouses battling it out in an divorce and nobody ever looks good in that situation.

[Roogsy]

Dero's agent is manipulating words IMO. look at what Lennon said we are looking at him and it isn't going to cost Celtic too much if we like him.

Both sides are 117. Don't think only one side has blood on their hands in this mess. Both sides are choosing their words very carefully.

[Wull]

why would the club release all but 15 of our players and sign nathan sturgis?

why indeed.

Nobody in their right mind would want most of the players we released. They weren't important. Tying someone to a long term contract and using a DP slot IS important and affects how this club will go forward for years.

I will give you the Sturgis one as being something that was above Earl's position in my opinion

[Roogsy]

Nobody in their right mind would want most of the players we released. They weren't important. Tying someone to a long term contract and using a DP slot IS important and affects how this club will go forward for years

That's not the point. You are excusing behaviour here. Either Earl can or cannot make fundamental roster decisions. If he can, then by all means proceed with the cleaning out and the bringing on of new players. If he can't, then he should not have done the moves he made. There are many of us that held this position from the very start of Earl's moves. Defining his role is crucial and yet TFC have refused to do so to fans. So if Earl can fire players, if Earl can bring on new players then Earl can certainly respond to renegotiation requests...he certainly should not be ignoring them. Even if the answer is "no"...an answer needs to be given. Would you not agree?

[Section 117]

But at the end of the day the final word comes from the club, if they gave no permission to go do what ever he is doing in Scotland period.

Did they drag their feet probably, but it is the job of the agent to make sure everything is in place before Dero got on the plane. Obvisouly nothing was done and now it's blame the FO as Dero is best thing since slice bread.

[Waggy]

I told Rooney yesterday, this is two sides with big egos on the line duking it out and the fans got caught in the crossfire.

If people don't like DeRo is not something surprising given everything that has happened. But letting TFC off the hook is the part that bothers me. It's their mismanagement, their disrespect and their avoidance that caused this whole issue to blow up.

There are certain fundamental activities that are necessary for a front office when dealing with your professional athletes. Responding to messages is one of them. I have witnessed first-hand (not just with DeRo) the frustrating experience it is to try to get a TFC staffer to respond back. When you treat your franchise player that way, you don't expect problems?

So blame DeRo, blame his agent, I can totally understand that. But if that's the case, TFC shares in the blame as well. These are two former spouses battling it out in an divorce and nobody ever looks good in that situation.

Morning Roogs. So look, we agree both parties are to blame- why continue to defend Deros actions? Can't we all just agree everyone was wrong, Deros agent acted like a DICK, Dero at best is extremely negligent and callous. The club incompetent and stupid. But the club isn't the one who can fix this situation, Deros the only one who can. Why isn't he? Why hasn't he?

[Roogsy]

But at the end of the day the final word comes from the club, if they gave no permission to go do what ever he is doing in Scotland period.

Did they drag their feet probably, but it is the job of the agent to make sure everything is in place before Dero got on the plane. Obvisouly nothing was done and now it's blame the FO as Dero is best thing since slice bread.

You'd think so wouldn't you? If this were Europe, that would definitely be the case. The problem here? The contracts are not owned by the team. That automatically brings a 3rd party into the equation. A 3rd party by the way that has a very strained relationship with the team.

[KShep121]

Roogsy, your responses to my points are in bold:

1. There was no agreement in place for Dero to trial with Celtic Never claimed there was. DeRo's permission was for training.
2. Dero did not receive permission from Toronto FC or MLS to trial with Celtic Again, never said there was

Here is your post from yesterday:

"I have unconfirmed reports that Celtic have documented approval for DeRo."

There are many other "source" posts from you in this thread that are clearly incorrect if you want me to dig them up too. And, no, Dero never received permission for "training" either.